So the Sovereignty defending Brexiteers. want to prevent erm, Sovereignty..

Fair point on many, but I think you could be surprised.

 

Agreed, I am also self employed and wouldn’t want it any other way

 

The aspect i've been most aware of, and don't know if this is the case elsewhere, but a good number of people waiting at our nearest B&Q for work. I've reported it numerous times as i'm not a believer in cash in hand forms of payment to workers (legal or not), or businesses not paying their fair share of tax, whether it be CTax or NI.

But the gangs certainly aren't EU based countries. And leaving the EU won't improve or prevent such practices (unless construction collapses, which has some chance of likelihood).

 

You may well be right about the timetable of events Mr Khat. You make some good points. However, I think it is perfectly clear that Johnson is threatening democracy. The man is dangerous. The whole issue is one of context and precedent. The man is leading a minority government so does not, de facto, have majority support in the Commons. Even so he still asked the Head of State to shut down parliament ( shutting down is what it is). This, in our constitution, is unprecedented. He has also prorogued Parliament for longer than is normal under our constitutional conventions. Unprecedented. The foundations of our democracy are under attack here. If you want to cut him some slack against the 'undemocratic' charges then that's up to you. I don't. I don't trust anyone who manipulates the constitution in an unprecedented way like this for clearly political reasons. This is not 'normal' because there needs to be a queen's speech, this is abnormal because Johnson has political reasons for manipulating the brexit debate. I say again, the man is dangerous, whatever the outcome of brexit.
In 1933, just before the election in Germany, Hitler as Chancellor in a democracy asked for and was given power to start locking people up. He was given authority to do so by the Head of State. Perfectly legal but dangerous and unprecedented.We all know what happened later. Democracy was under threat and Hitler got away with it. Laugh about the parallel if you wish. Johnson is dangerous.
If that isn't enough, read what others have said. The speaker of the House says it is a constitutional outrage. The ex chancellor says it is clearly undemocratic. Johnson is undermining our constitutional conventions for political purposes. That is dangerous.
Don't cut Johnson any slack. This is OUR parliamentary democracy and it is being manipulated.

 

And how many of those supporting him now would be happy with a Swinson/Starmer minority coalition government proroguing Parliament to rejoin the EU on an emergency deal which included losing the pound, any veto and paying double what we pay now? (for it to be a govt, they would have "won" an election).

Or someone in the future deciding to prorogue Parliament to delay an election because the polls were against them, or maybe even use Henry VIIIth powers to remove the Fixed Term Parliament Act and avoid any future elections altogether?

Precedence sets precedence, and the second time is always easier than the first...

 

Morning Marlon, just for the record I don't consider myself to have made it, nor do I think I’m a tory. If I had I wouldn't be working in a quarry for 50 hours a week and doubtless I’d be voting for them which I never have. I don't understand why people would vote for the current labour party, but I don't make out its because they're thick and dint understand what they’re voting fir which seems to be the remain stance on those who voted leave. I regard the current labour leadership with the same dislike as the thatcher goverment, I think they’d be bad fir Barnsley in equal measure.

 

I’m interested in why you think the current labour leadership would be as bad as that woman? I’m Genuinely interested as it’s not something I’ve heard before?

 

Just hazarding a guess... I bet you complain about the 'leftie mainstream media' supposedly imdoctrinating us all yet read The Sun?

 

Morning Trickster. Just reminding you there’s a whole raft of questions that you dodged last night still waiting to be answered. Cheers.

 

What absolute *****. Which particular policy ( not your opinion) would be as devastating for Barnsley as the Thatcher years. Please stick to secluded policies only not daft propaganda

 

Quoted just to make sure he doesn't dodge them again.

 

this argument about those who didnt vote is completely irrelevant,the terms of the referendum were clear and those who should have voted but did not have only themselves to blame if they dont like the outcome

 

Excellent post, respect for that.

I cannot understand the Brexit at any cost mentality. It's sheer bloody mindedness and the very macho desire to be proved right and twist anything to fit what a person has convinced themselves is right rather than assessing the evidence and having any level of analysis. How even the most ardent Brexit supporter can't be worried about the potentially devastating risks of a no deal, given the warnings of so many economists, healthcare professionals and heads of industry just suggests they aren't willing to think. It's like the government are preparing for wartime conditions, that should tell you everything about how wrong this might go.

I'd want a second referendum on the terms of the deal and again I don't get leavers saying they don't. Why? It's obviously for fear they'll lose, rather than any token worries about democracy (yesterday has shattered any illusions that's what this is about). Because it is reduced to winners and losers.

To cut your nose off to spite your face is a phrase that's never had a more concrete example than what we see here.

 

Or they didn't feel equipped to make such a monumental decision given the lack of clear, sensible information that was on offer regarding such a hugely complex issue?

Forgive me, but I don't remember the terms being as clear as 'Remain', 'Leave but wait for three years of political turmoil for your unelected PM to still not have agreed on terms we'll leave on whilst the economy is on the brink of recession'.

Also, the amount of people I know who are today staunch leavers but never bothered to vote at all at the time of the referendum tells you how much this is about empty rhetoric and populist hype rather than long held political values.

 

i mentioned a couple of weeks ago that i'd just done a three week tour of several european countries,including belgium , brexit was hot topic on any of the motorhome stopovers because as soon as my GB plate was eyeballed it didnt take long for people to ask how i voted and what surprised me most was the amount of people from these countries who would also like to be given the chance to have a similar vote because they do not like the political union..

the heated debates in my opinion would well and truly escalate if other countries were given a chance to voice their opinions

 

must be different circles pal because i dont know of anyone who didnt feel the need to vote because of lack of information and knowledge..the polling booth in our village has never ever been as busy.

 

That doesn't mean those people had the knowledge others wanted before voting though does it? They just felt they had.

 

That’s why I said abused .
I know zero hours have been around years and have suited people but the Tories abused them by sanctioning people on job seekers allowance if they didn’t take them up .
No good blaming sports direct the Torys made sanctioning legal if people refused .

 

The original post wasn’t addressed to you I never mentioned your name .

 

The power to vote out legislators who do not deliver what was wanted or promised. You know, basic democracy.