So the Sovereignty defending Brexiteers. want to prevent erm, Sovereignty..

That's because he didn't answer the question. He just typed another variant of the same doctrine he's been peddling all this thread.

 

Satire from the internet.....

With this absolute shambles we laughingly call British democracy, let's take a minute to remember just how we got here before Boris ends up with his trotters up in Nice, and we're all playing supermarket sweep with ******* molotov cocktails in Aldi.

For the best part of a decade the furiously pro-European BBC, with its rampant left wing bias gave a permanent platform to a far-right, fringe MEP called Nigel Farage for reasons unknown.

The walking dentist's warning leaflet would regularly leave Toad Hall to appear every Thursday night on Question Time, where he'd derail any debate unchallenged, to discuss his pipe dream of the UK exiting the European Union.

When not co-hosting Question Time he could be seen standing outside pubs where he'd smoke, down pints, and shout in an effort to appeal to the working classes.

Failing that he'd be clad in tweed watching dogs tear small foxes apart, or heading to Brussels on a private jet to not attend its meetings.

Meanwhile, receding pig enthusiast and lipless soundbite spouter David Cameron fancied a change from ruining Britain and torturing its poor, so he thought he'd mix things up a bit by granting the stringless Thunderbird puppet Farage his wish by turning him into a real boy.

You see UKIP lead by Farage on a bi-monthly basis had voters. Voters that believed 'it was them brown people what dun it, what ****** Britain' not Cameron and his appalling band of sadistic ********.

And although these voters weren't a threat seat-wise on account of our backward voting system, David Cameron like Gollum with a ring, or Boris Johnson with a leadership bid, really ******* wanted them.

So with all the arrogance you'd expect from an old Etonion and former Bullingdon club member (initiation: burning a fifty pound note in front of a homeless person) he decided to kill two birds with one stone by holding Peoples Vote mark one, or a referendum on leaving the EU.

In his mind it was a flawless plan. On the one hand he'd be able to heal a rift in his own party because the Europe question had always been like Kryptonite to the Tories, so surely knowing exactly how the public felt would put an end to all that infighting nonsense?

And on the other hand he'd be able to steal all of those precious UKIP votes which were being squandered on a ronsealed lovely person.

Being from better stock of course the great unwashed would listen to Cameron's warnings. Why wouldn't they? They'd bought all of his ******** so far about paying off debt, and hadn't rioted once! Well once, but that was just to steal TVs, and the Tories had purchased impotent water cannons by this point, so what could possible go wrong?

Well, all of it.

No one bothered to set a referendum threshold for example, so overnight the British public were divided practically 50/50 with one half being forever told they were the majority and that they deserved to be heard, whilst the rest of us were told to shut the **** up and stop moaning.

The leave campaign was proven to be built on ********, bluster, and the odd racist poster, but that didn't matter. The people had spoken and we must do as they say, even if they are ******* morons.

On the eve of the result, when Farage thought he'd lost by a narrow margin he promised that this wouldn't be the end of it, that we'd keep voting till we left. The following morning he gloated of a victory without one shot being fired and without a hint of irony. He'd won by the same margin he'd threatened to raise hell over if Leave lost.

We're not allowed to point this out though because it's anti-democratic and the majority have spoken! A sentiment echoed in every right-wing **** rag that force fed ******** to dickheads, and turned respected law lords into enemies of the people.

The damage was done and the touch paper lit. The UK was covered in flammable cladding and it was ready to explode at any minute. Cameron didn't care though. He shrugged, turned away from the cameras, hummed a little tune, and then ****** off into the sunset

 

It would most probably have to go to referendum though, and bearing in mind the terms would mean no vetoes and acceptance of the single currency I think it unlikely it would pass...the single currency issue seems to have little support apart from the most zealous EUphiles.

 

Another one that doesn’t understand that people are allowed to change their minds in a democratic society..... or simply scared that enough people have realized what a disaster we are heading for and changed their minds. If you are so confident why be scared of letting people vote?

 

I

Some of the Dutch and Italian lads at work seem to think that once all the brinkmanship has simmered, a few other countries will be looking to have their own vote to leave. I don’t really know their backgrounds but they seem pretty chilled about brexit as they are well qualified.

 

The car industry is rife with it.
Over 80% of Main dealers in the UK have contract valeters in. Those companies only employ self employed people to work on their sites.
They get paid a pittance for each car and have upto 11% deducted from their earnings. Historically the vast majority were non UK citizens and the companies involved actively sought these type people out to work for them.
In the last 2 years though more of these have been returning home and as the numbers reduce coming in these companies have gradually been being forced into altering their approach and employing UK people.
Some of these companies are turning over in excess of £30 million a year.
The same above applies to almost every National hire companies

 

It would go to referendum but I don’t think the terms would be much different to what we have now tbh.
I think in terms of money etc we would pay quiete s lot more but in terms of the things you say I don’t think the EU would frighten us off .
It would be a big coup for the EU to welcome back a country that has left and to offer things that they know we would reject would be counter productive .
Of course neither of us know what would happen or whether it would but I’d say common sense would prevail in us rejoining imo.

 

I don’t believe any MP who has obstructed Brexit, certainly not any MP who votes against the government in a vote of confidence, will be allowed to stand as a Conservative candidate again. To allow them to would make the loss of any held seat far more likely as votes would go to the Brexit Party in protest.

As for Leave vs Remain more generally, there are more parties and candidates on the ballot paper for Remain than for Leave - if you think the Leave vote would split then the same must also be true for the alternative.

 

Try listening

 

Try answering. it was a very straight forward question. Answering a different question, offering random unrelated statements aren't answering the question. I know its the modern way. Go on, try again, or answer by omission will be equally telling.

 

As I already said - I don’t recognise the sovereignty of the current Parliament to take decisions, particularly against the expressed wishes of the public, because so many of the MPs in positions of power obtained these by blatant lies and deception. I don’t see the actions of a Prime Minister, depriving the MPs who hold the public in contempt, as an affront to democracy, but rather a defence of the public.

 

Blimey. So if Jeremy Corbyn was PM and he prorogued us into the EU and accepted Schengen, the Euro, et al... you'd be ok with that? Its exactly the same principle.

I think this is all really quite sad. The vote was to leave. Taking back control of sovereignty was the line. And nowhere was no deal offered as a solution.

First judicial democracy was attacked. Then anyone trying to stop a government circumventing transparency and due process was decried. Then MPs were undemocratic for holding a government to account for what even leavers called a bad deal. Now the vote is being rewritten to crown an unelected PM and treat them presidentially to deny true sovereignty. Just because its perceived to fit the outcome, irrespective of precedent it sets.

It feels like whatever it takes to do something really bad for the country is justified, because a slender number in favour (irrespective of illegal activity) voted for it. yet I can guarantee if this were to join the EU and the vote had been 52 to 48 to do that, you absolutely wouldn't be in favour if that.

This is not a game. Its not a sporting outcome. This is the future of every single person on this set of islands, and will impact many more besides.

These are very worrying times indeed.

 

What if these MPs represent a remain constituent,?
There are many reasons for voting against the govt and that’s democracy .
Democracy is not steamrolling an advisory referendum that has split the country almost in half .
Your version of democracy is dictatorship same as Johnson’s .
Nobody gave the govt permission to leave without a deal , absolutely nobody !
To leave without a deal is illegal it’s like giving your house back and saying your not paying anymore , you are in breach of contract and they have no mandate to break the rules .
If we leave we leave amicably not because the Tory party have red lines and want to cherry pick . We voted to leave the EU not break the law.

 

Interesting point about Major although he did have a majority I believe and there was an immediate general election afterwards. As for the Labour proroguation, given the House of Lords' was trying to deny the will of the Commons I can understand that one in it's historical context. Even the author of the channel 4 report you highlighted however does say the current proroguation is 'abnormal' (his words). In context, I stand by what I said - Johnson is manipulating the constitution with a minority Government for political ends. He's a dangerous person for doing so (even allowing for all the other divisive, nasty stuff he's said).
On another issue, I wonder what the reaction would have been had a minority Labour Government under Corbyn prorogued Parliament before a contentious bill about, let's say, nationalisation of water? I wonder. That of course would also be completely unacceptable. But that's just hypothetical. Johnson has actually had the nerve to do it.

 

I get what you’re saying but would the re- nationalisation of some of our infrastructure be anywhere near as unpopular ( with the masses) Indeed, I think many would welcome it.

 

That is a ludicrous statement to make if you consider yourself a democrat. If you don't recognise the sovereignty of Parliament when it has been elected by the public then you are saying you don't agree with ANY parliament unless it fits in with your world view about whatever law/s you want the parliament to pass. Think about it. That's what you've just written. If you are a democratic person you would agree with the sovereignty of ANY parliament even if you disagreed with it. In other words you support Johnson's anti-democratic move because you are not democratic yourself and you simply want your own way on one issue (Brexit).

 

You may be right. I'm only using it to highlight Johnson though

 

Like you say neither of us can know...but it will pose a question about the EU itself... is it flexible and pragmatic or is it strictly rules based.

If it's the former I would think they would offer harder financial terms as you say and accept the current situation on the single currency. If it proves to be the latter option and it's rules based there is a problem...New countries on joining have to prepare to accept the single currency and adopt it as soon as the financial criteria is reached... without veto.
That could prove to be the stumbling block.

 

OK, I'm back in the room and open to answering the questions I've tried allegedly to avoid by going to bed;
We were told back in 2016 that we had a once in a lifetime chance to make a decision on whether to leave or stay, given that the EU and it's policies and procedures don't ever stand still it's not like domestic elections where you can vote every 5 years to keep the party in, or bring in another if you don't like the status quo. With the EU we're in and that's that.Yes we can can vote in eu elections, but no we cant opt in and out every 5 years like we can with our domestic parties.
So the majority voted and voted to leave.
The Brexit Party came to the fore in the last elections,remain parties didn't get the majority vote - what would happen if we voted leave again ? Have another vote, then another, then another ?

If Labour under Corbyn won the next general election I'd feel very strongly that the country had dropped a huge ballack, shall I start a petition for another general election ?
It seems that many on here think that we need to keep voting until those who voted to remain get a result they agree with.
Democracy ?

 

I'm told by the Latvians at work that there are too many Romanians in Barnsley now, that they are here for our healthcare, benefits etc.
We are 'mad' apparently with everything we offer because in their countries 'there is nothing'.
I'm quoting LATVIANS who think we're crackers.