Poor Boris

Nonsense but only because the deal TM negotoiated was NOT actually leaving. The UK would have been tied to the EU (even a senior EU official was heard to say that UK would become a vassel state". It was May (a closet remainer who basically rolled over to 'have her tummy tickled' (and with that stomach churning thought I will leave it there)

 

Not sure that Johnson vetoing anything in the EU Parliament could technically be breaking any UK law. If the bill proposed passes today he is required to request a delay to Article 50. He then has to vote agree with the other leaders to accept that delay. He can veto it. He has not explicitly defied parliament as theno 'no deal' amendment is not part of that EU decision. I appreciate you understand legal issues better than I but I think you may be clutching at straws on this.
As it stands Johnson needs do very little for Brexit to occur. I also see little to suggest an election will make a difference as the HoC will probably have pretty much the same makeup as now and 3+ years on we still have a major split. A Corbyn led Labour party is unelectable in the eyes of the overwhelming percentage of the UK electorate.

 

On Monday I had to go to Pinderfields Hospital as my elderly Dad had fallen. As I was driving there in the car I had the radio on listening to all the crazy Brexit nonsense. I parked the car and went into A&E. There were no rooms available for many so elderly women and men were laid on beds in corridors, some of them looking in a very bad state and not given any chance of privacy. I was told this was not a particularly busy Monday.

The Brexit debate, caused by the call of David Cameron to settle an internal war inside the Tory Party that's raged for 40 years and that's needlessly run along side 8 years of austerity, was in stark contrast to those people in hospital who just need to see a doctor in time and with some due level of dignity.

If you don't choose to vote this Tory government out then you're part of the problem. Sure, I get you're angry. I actively spoilt my ballot as I was for leaving on a sensible way (Lexit) but I was smart enough to never vote for anything that would be left to the devices of a Tory party. But if you're a traditional Labour voter and you don't vote and your constituency ends up losing a Labour MP and with another Tory government then frankly I've got **** all sympathy for you,especially as they've now lurched even further RIGHT. There's a time not to vote (most of it) but this isn't one of them.

Vote them out, every last one of them.

 

Just a small point. If a country has a massive deficit resulting in high levels of borrowing ie national debt the money that could be spent on the Welfare state, infrastructure etc instead goes to servicing that debt interest payments, selling Govt bonds with high yields. Only by turning deficit into surplus can you reduce debt, To have a healthy welfare state you have to have a strong economy. The Conservatives have managed to reduce the deficit. HOWEVER...their downfall is having done so through austerity they a) made the poorest sectors of society pay the high price of austerity and b) made sure the benefits of that austerity drive ended up in the hands of Corporation. That has always and continues to be their downfall. Unfair distribution of wealth. Those who carry the greatest burden miss out on the rewards.

 

I used to be a traditional labour voter, I’d urge people to research what and who they're voting for rather than subscribing to the four legs good two legs bad mantra of old. Hope your Dads ok

 

I think, with the greatest of respect to you Tekktyke that you are rather confusing the issue here. As Bojo would be the person making the request I don't see at all that he would be one of the parties considering it. That would be acting as a judge in his own cause. In that event he wouldn't have any veto?

 

Johnson doesn't have a vote on it never mind a veto. Any decisions on an extension are taken by the EU27 leaders from their side.

I have heard that the EU have suspended negotiations with Johnson's representatives as they don't believe he is in control of the UK and is likely to lose power in the near future.

Leaving the SM, CU and ending FoM certainly looked a lot like leaving the EU. The problem with her deal was that it was too leave for any remainer (it took the UK out of the better parts of the EU), while it was too remain for any leaver (or so it is claimed even though many appeared to support it).

 

Err a no vote IS a veto. Are there not still currently 28 member states not 27 as you state since the UK has not yet left. Are you saying we have no veto( unclear as to the relevance of wwithdrawing UK repsentatives) Not saying you are wrong but I thought as we are still one of 28 we still have a vote.

 

i believe we have already withdrawn our reps. if A50 is extended then we may, no doubt in consultation with our friends look to reinstate some, as for your earlier post i believe we cant veto ourselves although i haven't seen it written down, it would however be common sense.

 

What happens if the EU refuse the extension?

 

We do not get a vote in the EU about the deal between the EU and UK. Otherwise, we could veto a deal that we had negotiated but decide we don't like.

There are rumours that Johnson has tried asking Orban to veto it.

 

See the tory brexit rebels have bounced into action on the Benn Motion. Apparently they have tabled so far 92 amendments in the house of lords to the original motion. Taking into account the Lords have to debate every single amendment before they come back to the commons. They may be a while. This is not even the bill, just the first motion. So it's not going to be as clear cut with Bercow bias as it seems.

 

See, we do agree! [/QUOTE]
Then you’d agree it’s all Tory Made?

 

We’ll agree to disagree; but you will have to admit that the reason we haven’t left is nothing to do with Remainers, the whole sh1tshow has been run incompetently by leavers. May paid £2bn for a majority with a single purpose; which she failed to deliver due to leavers in her own party.

 

In the referendum a majority voted to leave the EU.
Many MP's refuse to accept the result and are opposed to us leaving -
and somehow many of the electorate accepted the spurious arguments which trickled down form Westminster that we shouldn't accept the result of the referendum because

a) people didn't know what they were voting for
b) the winning margin wasn't big enough
c) it was bad for the country.
d) in a democracy you can change your mind (that's right, but you have to honour the result of a previous vote.)
(and if you were a leaver you were subject to personal abuse (watch this space!)

- you were conned into challenging the whole concept of democracy.

Now we have the bizarre position where a PM facing challenging negotiations is told he can't have a 'No Deal' because we are told it would be catastrophic for the country. It may be or it may not.
But there is no point in going into a negotiation with someone who knows you can't walk a way without a Deal. If you have to come away with any deal you're at a disadvantage.

and so we are conned - what those who insist on there being a No Deal are really wanting is for us to remain.

And a General Election looms - it will destroy my party, the labour Party.
Let's ask Mr Corbyn and the other Labour candidates - should a democratic vote be honoured ??
Johnson and Farage v. Corbyn and Swinson - sadly my money would be on the former.

 

Does it not depend on which amendments are called by the Lords Speaker? (I don't know - I'm just asking.)

 

You have to love the irony and the highly selective, often hypocritical examples pulled forward.

Apparently, it's not democratic to allow an emergency motion to aim to prevent a disastrous outcome that nobody voted for. Anyone can argue the semantics, but the simple truth is the referendum was set up terribly badly, to the point so much subjectivity can contort that question to mean allsorts now and them all be correct.

But yet it is seemingly democratic that unelected Lords have been encouraged to filibuster by an unelected PM and an advisor who was found in contempt.

Surely we should be consistent in our values and morality. Purely allowing any method for your personal outcome to be fruitful is a very dangerous path and one I'd hope the average decent person would wish not to be taken forward.

But I fear we live in times where outcome is all. We're beyond hyperbole. We're beyond truth. So what's left? And is it worth it?

 

It seems poor unelected Boris and his psychopathic advisor have closed down the area around parliament square to Downing Street.

Democracy.