Boris defeated by 27

marlon,I brought blair up because you said if we were gonna leave the eu then we should have done so years ago,blairs promises of a referendum WERE years ago, he promised us a referedum and imo the result to leave then would have been far bigger than it was in 2016 and we would have been out by now... this is why I commented about blair mate, i dint just pluck it out of thin air so to speak

 

i want PR bud,i detest the current system

 

Regardless of what was or wasn't promised in 1997, imagine the absolute horror show this country would be if we'd not been in the EU for the last 20 years...

 

Fair enough but I wasn’t referencing Blair or anybody tbf but if we were gonna leave we should have done so before any political union .
Once we’d made that commitment as a country to go down that road we should see it through as it would be too damaging for us to pull out as is proving .
But that’s past and I’m commenting on not whether the ref should have gone ahead that’s done .
I’m not even commenting whether we should leave or not but the fact that this was conceived and brought about with no plan , no idea and no political consensus which imo was important .
Everything that’s happening with leavers or remainers is because of the slap dabbery of imbeciles.

 

Referendums have been used across Europe 48 times to decide EU related issues...I can only assume their leaders never took the equivalent politics courses.

 

There are some countries that use referendums regularly for all kinds of things, others less so.

I find it hilarious that some people will defend the decision to hold a referendum and then struggle for an explanation for the sh1tshower that's resulted in the fallout from it.

My reaction of 'the ******* nobhead!' when I heard Cameron had announced the referendum wasn't because I didn't want to leave the EU, but because the choice of a single binary question was bound to cause this widespread political discord.

 

thing is tho marlon it was the politicians that took us into the political union and not the people, the 75 referendum was for a trading block and not a political union therefore it was about time were were granted another say in the future, the left of politics argued during the signing of maastricht by the tories that the politicians did not have the authority to sign away domestic powers without first consulting the public and major hit back by saying it wasnt written in our constitution (please dont take this wording as literal because i'm speaking from memory and not google), there was uproar within our union (num) as to what major was doing

 

i'm defending the decision to hold the referendum because for more than 20 years ALL the main political parties either promised one or called for one

my explanation for the sh itshower is that the establishment do not want us out and by hook or by crook they'll keep us in.. my dis-trust of politicians extends to all corners of the commons, i can count on one hand those who i do trust

edit, that single binary question was also used in 1975 and because the establishment got their way no bugga questioned the wording then

 

That’s correct but it’s an elected parliament that took us down that road whether we liked it or not and once down the road that was that .
There’s many things elected govts did that I didn’t like that never got revoked . the pit closure programme for one but once entered into that was that and many other decisions .
That was though the time to come out and we didn’t , now it’s damaging to come out all the facts and figures point to this even the unpublished gives own records point to this .
But it’s bye the bye now we’ve voted and we have to make contingency plans but knowing that we will be damaged and it takes years to sort out once we’ve left and Trump telling us the BHS will be on the table when he opens negotiations it is fair imo once a deal has been reached and settled that this is put back to the people with all options open . That is democratic and fair imo

 

Well that's some interesting conspiracy theories - I prefer a more straightforward view of life based on humans and their fallibility.

I've worked around and for politicians from all parties and I see them like policemen - for the most part they set off with altruistic intentions and some of them turn out to be bad apples. But I can't think of a better alternative.

 

we are running around in circles here mukka

so i'll leave this with, had the common market remained what was voted for in 1975 then i would have no reservations about staying in.. however imo, what we have now is not what were were advised upon therefore we needed another referendum.. Dishonestly and lies by politicians as to what the eu was/is has caused the divisions we see now and simply accepting it is not in my DNA

marlon, i respect that you differ from me on this

 

thats entirely up to you donny

edit, the alternative is PR so we get a wider selection of representation, i then feel that manifesto lies and more lies would decrease

 

Maybe the other parties knew what chaos it would cause in the country - the Tories certainly underestimated it.

 

Anyone for a video?

https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_ca....com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tedspread

 

Excellent. Thanks Pompey.

 

maybe but imo not giving the electorate a vote on the issue after been promised one, time after time, isnt the way to go either