GE October 15th

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by arabian_ian, Sep 4, 2019.

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  1. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    Good post. For me a second referendum is the only way to go. Remain / May's Deal & possibly no deal with single transferrable vote system, so people have a second preference. I think it is safe to say no deal won't happen, but might be wise to put it on the ballot paper on reflection. under a single transferable vote system, where the least popular option is removed & second choices are transferred to the two remaining options. It s a difficult call that one.

    I do fear civil unrest if this is not brought to a head soon, there is a lot of bitterness on both sides & some far right yellow jacket fascists clashing with remainers, could open the cauldron. (I'm not saying all leavers are far right BTW, just that some on the far right may use this as a vehicle).
     
    John Peachy, Sep 5, 2019
    #101
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  2. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    If the ERG had supported May's deal, it would have gone through, with the aid of the DUP, Labour leavers, etc. The ERG have pushed the whole thing off a cliff edge & are now doing the same to the Conservative Party, now that they control the front bench.
     
    John Peachy, Sep 5, 2019
    #102
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  3. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    No the term was we will never support a deal with the Tory red lines attached .
    Labour wants a deal with closer ties to the Market etc .
    Don’t know what you’ve been watching but I’ve not seen where ALL the debates are about overturning the decision ?
    Most debates have been about deals , Mays deal etc .
    Only the Lib Dem’s and SNP are fully committed to overturning the ref so where you got that from about Corbyn I don’t know ? Maybe it’s a Labour Party prejudice of yours ?
     
    Marlon, Sep 5, 2019
    #103
  4. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    Starmer also said nobody is ruling out remain as an option, make of that what you will
     
    dekparker, Sep 5, 2019
    #104
  5. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    I make it as it says but that doesn’t say that every debates been done to turn the ref as MDG said .
     
    Marlon, Sep 5, 2019
    #105
  6. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    A Labour party prejudice. I've been a Labour voter in every election so far. Well maybe not the debates are about overturning the decision but Labours promise, same with the Tories to implement the result of the referendum was a lie. So I trust neither party now. Never trusted the lib dems anyway so my vote will be going elsewhere, hopefully to an independent.
     
    MDG, Sep 6, 2019
    #106
  7. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Your arguing the wrong thing again .
    Article fifty has been triggered by the majority of Parliament both sides labour and conservatives .
    The debates are what we want from Brexit and all party’s want different .
    so it wasn’t a lie the result has been implemented .
     
    Marlon, Sep 6, 2019
    #107
  8. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    They allowed article 50 to be triggered but had zero intention of accepting any deal. Then when it comes to no deal, zero intention again.
    All just playing party politics.
     
    MDG, Sep 6, 2019
    #108
  9. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    That’s totally different what you were saying first off .
    And that’s an interpretation of what’s you think is happening the reality is the govt made a sh it shower of the election and nobody knows what to do which is totally different to what your saying .
     
    Marlon, Sep 6, 2019
    #109
  10. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, I have said all along that Labour would not accept any deal whatsoever the Tries brought back.. From day 1 they have wanted to run the clock down debating the same thing over and over again until the point that they could take control of proceedings and ultimately revoke article 50. Almost guaranteed to happen now. I just haven't listened to the pro remain media pushing the narrative that they want to do a deal. They don't, they want to remain.
     
    MDG, Sep 6, 2019
    #110
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  11. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    The Labour plan is to negotiate a deal - with different red lines they *could* get a better deal than Mays - then offer that versus Remain in a referendum and campaign for remain as it is the better of the two options.

    If we leave, there are consequences and the harder/quicker the method of leaving the harder those consequences and the quicker they are felt.
     
    Scoff, Sep 6, 2019
    #111
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  12. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    That’s your opinion though not reality .
     
    Marlon, Sep 6, 2019
    #112
  13. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    He's probably right though. That is their agenda. It's plainly obvious.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Sep 6, 2019
    #113
  14. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Marlon, Sep 6, 2019
    #114
  15. Red

    Red-Taff. Well-Known Member

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    And Boris returns from the mid-October summit holding aloft a paper proclaiming 'we have peace in our time' - the Irish backstop issue has, thanks to modern technology, been resolved.
    DUP happy - the 21? excluded Tory MP's offered a return to the fold if they vote the bill through - enough labour MP's in leave constituencies vote for the Deal to be passed.
    Corbyn relieved!
     
    Red-Taff., Sep 6, 2019
    #115
  16. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    A vote geared towards the outcome you're wanting to achieve. Spot on.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Sep 6, 2019
    #116
  17. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    No - the problem is there was a cross party campain for both leave and remain - when leave won narrowly(!) instead of keeping the cross party idea and going for a reasonable compromise soft brexit which would have got through parliament as the majority of Labour and Tory MP's would have voted for it May went for a hard brexit - too hard for Labour to support, but too soft for the ERG fanatics for who nothing sort of complete seperation from the EU is good enough.

    Labours policy was for a softer Brexit - this was a much more sensible approach as most leave and remain voters would have seen that it was a compromise in line with a spilt in the country - if a compromise between Labour and the Tories had been worked out we would have already left

    Even now Labours policy is still to leave but with a deal which keeps us closer to Europe than Mays deal proposed - but currently the whole fiasco in Parliament is not to stop us leaving, but to stop us leaving in the most extreme and damaging way possible. Almost everyone with understanding of international trade can give long lists of reasons why leaving with no deal and reneging on our already agreed commitments to the EU will be very bad.

    The applingly ill thought out referendum absolutely did not state that we must leave and sever all agreements it just said leave, that is accomplished either by adopting Mays deal , or a softer Labour deal if it can be acheived- either of which have a better chance of uniting the country than the country crashing out because the far right MP's have no idea how to leave with a deal
     
    Farnham_Red, Sep 6, 2019
    #117
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  18. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    We won't leave at all under Labour. Just like Boris tried every trick in the book Labour will too. The second referendum on Leave with May's deal or remain for instance. What about leave with Labour's deal or remain?

    Absolutely no thought to leaving just empty rhetoric.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Sep 6, 2019
    #118
  19. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    It's no different to people saying they don't trust the PM wants a deal. I don't trust any of them.

    Likewise as I accept my view is my opinion and may well not be fact, it is as equally flawed as yours..
     
    MDG, Sep 6, 2019
    #119
  20. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    If the technology existed, it would be in use in Norway/Sweden and Switzerland/EU. The technology doesn't exist (yet). It could in a few years, but it would take 5-10 years realistically to design and implement.
     
    Scoff, Sep 6, 2019
    #120
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