No Deal Brexit

what things?

 

The touring Europe things ,
You said I’ve been to non EU countries with no problems and the reason you’ve had no problems is because the EU negotiated to gave no problems .
You took travelling into non EU countries for granted well I’m sorry they aren’t they were negotiated by EU and will have yo be renegotiated by UK again once out .

 

are you sure bud?

you are telling me (for example) how i travel to india and how i buy my visa has been sorted out in brussels? i dont think it is bud

 

I think you’ll be surprised

 

That was one of the main points of the No campaign back in 1975. Further political union was definitely mentioned within the campaign literature.

 

Leo Varadkar is gay, so LGBTQ+ rights in Ireland should be much better than they were.

 

My point being they were years behind everyone else, not that they haven't caught up.

 

The fecking roads are still s***e though. Thankfully, outside of Dublin there's nothing on them.

 

They are significantly better than they were 25 years ago though.

 

They are getting better. The road into Dingle has been improved. Not sure that's all good. Makes it seen less remote.
We did break the suspension last week on a bump in one of the improved bits though.

 

no it wasnt


“How does the current EU setup differ from what was put before the electorate in the 1970s referendum? I have heard that it was touted as simply a trade agreement.”

Full Fact readers

In 1975 the UK held a referendum on continued membership of the European Community.

This wasn’t presented just as a trade agreement. Other issues discussed at the time related to security, European funding for UK industries and regions, and aid to developing countries.

That’s not to say that anyone in 1975 knew what the EU would be like in 2016, or how much it would change in the following years.

The European Community was presented as more than a trade agreement

During the 1975 campaign, membership of the European Community was presented by both the government and the Conservative opposition as relevant to peace, security, and both regional and international development, as well as to trade and economic cooperation.

In 1975 the government set out the aims of the European Community as bringing “together the peoples of Europe”, raising living standards and improving working conditions, promoting growth and boosting world trade. They also set out that the EC would “help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world” and “help maintain peace and freedom”.

In their October 1974 manifesto, the Conservative party outlined the two key ideas behind the EEC as being to maintain security within Europe and to allow European influence in the world, and control over its own affairs, to grow in a world of polarised superpowers.

The “Yes” and “No” campaigns talked about other issues too

The “Yes” campaign of 1975 also presented the debate as being about a range of issues, from jobs security to world peace and the Commonwealth.

One “Yes” campaign claim which with the benefit of hindsight we can say was not true, was that English common law would not be affected by staying in the European Community. We now know that EU law has a significant effect on UK law

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

i know you've posted this link before Scoff but please show me where it says there will be further 'political' union

 

you are right bud, i would be surprised because i cannot find anything that says its the EU that has secured my world travel rights, even the pet passport scheme (which i have for our three dogs) extends beyond the EU.

Everything i've looked at and read so far is only concerned with travel within the eu.

 

Further political union was not mentioned in any specific way in the Govts leaflet that was sent to every household..apart from to say

".there was a threat to employment in Britain from the movement in the Common Market towards an Economic & Monetary Union. This could have forced us to accept fixed exchange rates for the pound, restricting industrial growth and putting jobs at risk. This threat has been removed "

The emphasis was very much on 'market', so much so that the words European Community were only used five times in the whole pamphlet....the words market or common market were used almost sixty.

 

So you've moved to Ireland and are still a Dingle?....hard core mate!!

 

And here is an issue - Ireland has been an independent country for quite some time now! The clue is in the name - Republic of Ireland.

Please do not lump the ROI in with the extremist DUP loopers in Northern Ireland.

 

WT actual F - Ireland has finally sorted the abortion laws, agreed it was a long time coming but when something is actually in a written constitution it takes some changing. As for same sex marriage then ROI led the world on this one. The days of the Catholic Church controlling everything are gone, as the respect for that organisation is heading to non-existent status for good reason.

 

Pg 9 of that leaflet:

"There was a threat to employment in Britain from the movement in the Common Market towards an Economic & Monetary Union. This could have forced us to accept fixed exchange rates for the pound, restricting industrial growth and putting jobs at risk."

It does go on to say the threat was removed (from a different PM getting a new deal), but it was acknowledged then.

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:wiz349xek/read/single#page/1/mode/1up

Pg 7 - point #7

"Federal State - The authorities in Brussels plan to turn the Common Market into a Federal State..."

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:fis493kuy/read/single#page/1/mode/1up

Pg 2 - "Concerned about your Freedom"
"This right would be lost if we stay in the Common Market. For the Market intends, stage by stage, to merge Britain with Germany, France, Italy and other countries into a new bureaucratic continental state."

If you look at https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/collections/brexit/1975, it is a collection of all the different campaign leaflets and many of the arguments in 1975 were exactly the same in 2016.

This is also an interesting read from just before the referendum - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36367246

"This is not entirely true. Sovereignty - the ability to run our own affairs - was very much an issue in the 1975 referendum.

Enoch Powell, the maverick right wing Tory who had just become an Ulster Unionist MP, and left wing Labour cabinet minister Tony Benn - the loudest voices in the Out campaign - talked endlessly about it."

So yes, there was plenty of information at the time about the plans to eventually become a Federal state - but it is still a few generations away.

I have also seen TV interviews discussing it, but I haven't got time now to find any clips - looks like an interesting watch though with Tony Benn arguing against and Roy Jenkins arguing for.

 

There’s exactly the point I made; it seems some people are so keen to find an argument that they fail to read what’s been written.
Here it is again...

And the reason it took so long is religion.

 

Scoff this is basically folk arguing what the intentions were, there is nothing in the official pamphlet about 'political' union..

So no, there wasnt plenty of info about and imo the fact that its not even mentioned in the official government literature shows that it was either dismissed or not even talked about, i do not know of anyone who voted in 1975 that says they knew the common market was going onto be a political union, people like Tony Benn and Enoch Powell were dismissed much in the same way as prominent leave campaigners were this time round

 

i agree bud and a Economic and Monetary union does not equate to a political union with its own set of MP'S, unelected commissioners and a separate parliament .