Best players leaving

You forgot to say, that’s until we start winning games again.

 

Do you honestly believe hand on heart that PC put in more than he took out???[/QUOTE]

Yes, there’s more money coming out of a club than first appears. It’s not all about gaining or losing in transfers or promotions....

 

Do you honestly believe hand on heart that PC put in more than he took out???[/QUOTE]


Absolutely. Went to meetings where it was spelt out by others in the club. Not by Patrick himself. ( all he wanted was the club to be run on a footing where the custodians didn’t risk putting it in jeopardy also why he insisted James had a part ) All he asked for when the club was sold was his losses. Or would have stood them if no one was forthcoming.

 

Absolutely. Went to meetings where it was spelt out by others in the club. Not by Patrick himself. ( all he wanted was the club to be run on a footing where the custodians didn’t risk putting it in jeopardy also why he insisted James had a part ) All he asked for when the club was sold was his losses. Or would have stood them if no one was forthcoming.[/QUOTE]
His losses?? They paid him 20 million and his son kept a % stake on board. If you think PC lost 20 million running that club i want a pint of whatever you're drinking.....

 

Can you provide evidence for this? Because I have never heard or seen a genuine sale figure.

 

His losses?? They paid him 20 million and his son kept a % stake on board. If you think PC lost 20 million running that club i want a pint of whatever you're drinking.....[/QUOTE]


Coors mate. Nice pint. the new owners took on the £6m debt. his son has a 1.5% or 20% stake stake . ( Depends on which report you read) The value of the club was by right his and the new owners to determine based on assets. Never intimated he lost £20 m. And also depending on which report you read. His share was worth between £10m and £20 m. Unless you can provide me of proof otherwise. Then I digress..

PS please rectify responses appears I'm you.

 

Funny how PC did exactly same as conway is doing for years but yet one is revered and one is getting absolute dogs abuse when we go 2 nil down. The PC happy clapping brigade make me smile.....

 

Sum sup my feelings exactly.

 

I tend to agree Hooky tbh.
I have had a rant at abad result or performance but after I’ve calmed down I look at the reality.
I think the same as you regards ownership they aren’t just gonna run the club down .
I think we in danger of driving them out and there’s no silver lining once they go .
I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt ,mistakes have been made and they need to rectify them .

 

I agree with you. But I think the rising problem for the club is the growing number of people who are getting to the stage where they simply don't care. It's difficult to retain any enthusiasm for the club when they act like a sausage factory for bigger clubs and refuse to explain their actions to the fans. How is the current strategy in any way helping to achieve their stated aim of stability in the Championship? Why has Daniel Stendel gone from being someone 'we'll be lucky to hold onto' to a pariah? How are the results his fault and not those of a Board with a deliberate policy that leads to the team being regularly weakened?

 

Whilst I didn't start the greedy b'stds chant, I did join in - loudly. I've never openly protested before and I've been going since the late 60's but my level of frustration and anger right now is such that I feel it's the right thing to do. Let me express a slightly different opinion to you Hooky feller. And everything that follows is in the context that like AthersleyRed said above, I get that we're a selling club, we absolutely have to be.

We are currently under-performing, 9 pts from 15 games is surely dramatically worse than anyone expected. We are also under-performing off the pitch, particularly with regards to our customer base. Attendances are falling (they appear to be down by about 1k on a few weeks ago and that doesn't take into consideration season ticket holders who may not be attending) and based on comments on here over the last few weeks we may be losing long-standing fans due to apathy / frustration etc. I'd be very interested to know what other income looks like atm too as I suspect that may also be down if only as a result of lower attendances.

When performance (of any organisation) is so poor, it's right that there is some analysis of the causes and attempts are made to correct it. When I think about that I arrive at a few judgements.

Individually and collectively the team are making too many mistakes but they are undoubtedly fighting and at times are playing some decent football. I question our quality though. IMO there are only three who are consistently showing championship quality - Woodrow, Mowatt and Collins. I might also be persuaded on Halme, who appears to be finding his feet. Some of the others may develop and become good players in the future, others won't. I will support the team though as I believe they are working as hard as they can.

Edit: on reflection I'd probably add Kenny Dougall to the above list too.

So if the recruitment hasn't to date been good enough are the recruitment staff to blame? My conclusion on this is that they're not - at every club some transfers come off and some don't. It sometimes just doesn't happen for players at a particular club, even for the best. It's inevitable that we'll experience the same - which is why I said some won't work out in the paragraph above. The thing is though that the likelihood of a player not making the grade is higher with younger players because we are betting on their development AND on them fitting in here. Which takes me back to the strategy.

The mistake the owners have made is in applying it so strictly. As others have already said, if we'd added 2 or 3 older players with championship experience I firmly believe we wouldn't be in the bottom 3 now. So my judgement is that the purchasing policy applied by our owners is a major contributor to our current problems. On the other side I'm also critical of the outgoing transfers. I disagree with the argument that "we had to sell because they wanted to go" - many other clubs play hardball in a similar situation. According to wikipedia we paid £360k for Lindsay and £513k for Pinnock. Patrick once said that we'd sometimes let players leave for free at the end of their contract and accept that we'd had value during their contract. We could've chosen to do this but I believe our owners put the monetary value of the sale above anything else and misjudged our ability to replace them, particularly given the recruitment strategy. As an aside, sooner or later we will have to say no to a players request to leave if we are to achieve progression or we'll never build anything. By the way, for me the greedy b'stds chant is a reflection of both of the above - that money is too high a priority. (The sack the board chant doesn't work given that they are owners).

I've also considered our Head Coach(es). I do think we were worse defensively under DS - maybe he would've corrected that and maybe he wouldn't. His regular requests for experience definitely fell on deaf ears though. In the absence of any information from the club I still believe that he was sacked for speaking out once too often. For the record, I'm undecided on AM. We do have more structure but I'd disagree that the players are working any harder - they have worked hard all season.

So, my conclusion is that the underperformance is as a result of decisions made by our owners. I believe that they are honest mistakes by the way, decisions made in good faith. And that's fair enough, poor decisions get made in business, we all make poor decisions. What I'm not getting though is any sense that they accept that they have made some mistakes or that they will seek to correct them. IF there was some sort of communication from them to even hint at it I'd be on-board and my protests would at least pause to give them time to take corrective action but in the absence of that I'll protest to make sure they hear my dissent.

You may say it'll make no difference (in which case we're f'cked imo) but I can't stand by and through my silence indicate to them that it's all ok. It very definitely isn't.

 

It is only a deliberate policy insofar as they want the club to be self sufficient. They do not intend to act as the club's bank. There is no doubt that we missed out on a number of players that we had earmarked in the summer transfer window. I interpret the fact that we did not recruit for every position as not wanting to panic and buy a player who had not been sufficiently well researched after we missed out on our first 3 choices, rather than a reluctance to reinvest money from the sale of our players. Whilst others look forward to us selling our better players in the January transfer window, I look forward to us recruiting players for the positions that we missed out on.

That does not mean that players will not leave. The change of system since Stendel left has rendered a few players redundant, and I expect them to be nudged gently toward the exit door. There are new requirements that would not have been on Stendel's shopping list. A new system means changes to personnel. It cannot be avoided. However, I do expect the new recruits to be young, and I do have doubts where this team can be saved from relegation. That does not concern me as much as it does others. If the plan is a 5 year plan, and we are in year 2, now is not the time to judge whether the plan is a success.

 

And there’s the thing Helen, some people want/expected the money to piled into players straight away, but they never said that.
Like you said maybe there holding some back, maybe its as others said later in thread, they missed out on targets & rather than buy for sake decided to wait.

 

do we actually have any 'best' players ?

 

"Barnsley Football Club confirms that it has separated from Daniel Stendel with immediate effect. Adam Murray has been appointed caretaker manager."

That is the latest official statement on the managerial situation at the club. From it I am unable to ascertain whether Daniel Stendel was sacked, resigned or put on gardening leave and is still in the club's employ.
I do not know if we are looking for a new manager. I do not know if we have invited applicants. I do not know if we are head hunting a new manager. I do not know if we are interviewing. I do not know anything regarding the intentions of the board for the permanent position of manager/head coach.

I can accept the poorly worded statement was a mistake. But the total lack of communication since suggests they don't believe it to be so. This lack of communication appears to go beyond disrespect of the fan base and seems genuinely contemptuous. Whether they thank Daniel Stendel or not is actually irrelevant, it's the failure to give any sort of statement of intent on how they are moving forward from their decision that clearly demonstrates they simply do not care about the opinion of 10,000+ customers who paid in advance.

I'm struggling to understand how this ongoing situation affords them the benefit of the doubt.

 

TBF you erased the bit where I said they’ve made mistakes ,
I’m not happy by a long way what’s going off at Oakwell but weighing the alternatives I’m giving the benefit of the doubt but obviously that leaves room for my feelings to change.

 

I didn't erase it mate, I referred to the statement being a mistake. It's the fact that every minute that passes without further communication compounds that mistake that I'm struggling with. There aren't just past mistakes, there are current ones, ongoing, that they're doing nothing to address.

 

I agree with the communication or lack of there could be a logical reason why Daniel was sacked . I can’t see one myself but there could be , I’m only guessing but there could be legal or other reasons for that .
The board courted publicity when things were going well inviting the lads from Tykes TV etc and now have gone quiete which is just fanning the flames of speculation and it’s there own fault.
I think there is a time for protest imo that would come after January if things aren’t put in place to rectify the summer .
I’ve no problem with people protesting that’s up to them , after some of the performances my immediate reaction is to blame everyone and everything.
I don’t know what the answer is but some sort of communication and some answers would go a long way even if they couldn’t give all the answers a reassurance would help imo.

 

[QUOTE="wolvestyke, post: 2375097, member: 5417
So, my conclusion is that the underperformance is as a result of decisions made by our owners. I believe that they are honest mistakes by the way, decisions made in good faith. And that's fair enough, poor decisions get made in business, we all make poor decisions. What I'm not getting though is any sense that they accept that they have made some mistakes or that they will seek to correct them. IF there was some sort of communication from them to even hint at it I'd be on-board and my protests would at least pause to give them time to take corrective action but in the absence of that I'll protest to make sure they hear my dissent.

You may say it'll make no difference (in which case we're f'cked imo) but I can't stand by and through my silence indicate to them that it's all ok. It very definitely isn't.[/QUOTE]


Regarding your statement mate we're not that far apart. I agree with a lot of what you've said especially the last 2 paragraphs above. I too want answers to the way they percieve the running of the club given the position we're in and how they see rectifying it. . I Will be at the fan engagement asking those same questions we all want answers to unless beaten to it.
Re the vile chants. once again I find having to explain my reasons for my comments.
People are saying who would want to be the manager of this club given the strings attached to the job. ( Not so sure anyone would want to take any job agreeing with everything in a contract ) But those same people ( including you by your own admission) Are in danger of putting off any potential buyers if there are any out there. Patrick would only hand over the club to custodians that kept the ship afloat and not go down the road of putting the club in jeopardy. The club were for sale the day after he bought it. No one rushing to take over. By all means chant your displeasure,. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the vile stuff. Most chanting is done by young uns joining in with their mates. With no idea of what goes on with the running of the club.

 

Actually agree re first point. Re Patrick.Met him on several occasions and put forward my views on several occasions to him and disagreed on some subjects. Eg Re pricing and merchandise.etc. as to running the club I do not pretend to know all the ins and outs of what it costs . But one thing I am aware of. Was his love for the club as a fan . He always openly admitted more or less he didn't want to buy the club. But didn't want to see it fold. So happy clappers is a bit inappropriate. Affection for what he did. Yes.