Labour nd the future

Sadly although a life long Labour voter ( No change yesterday) I and many others have been saying that Corbyn did not appeal to the undecided swing voter, I and others like me have been castigated on this site as political midgets and daily mail readers who did not have the intelligence to understand Mr Corbyn's message.
Now as we sit in the ashes of the worst result since 1987 and have to suffer the gloating face of Gove as well as Boris. (No doubt Rees Mogg will reappear) the fear of the size of their majority and the mandate that they have to do what the f**k they like nearly brings me to tears.
Yes there will be a new Labour leader, yes this lot will be found out and yes some of the seats they won, where they have never won before, are only on loan but it's a 5 year loan and the damage may be irreparable by the next election. Sadly this proves that politics is not about policy and substance, its about feeding the frenzy of popular mindsets and whenever anyone objects just shout louder and keep talking.
Sadly both Gove and Johnson could not even be magnanimous in victory this morning and both still have to berate Corbyn and make digs and jibes in their speeches......god help us

 

It's worse than that as you have to go back to 1935 (Atlee) to find a worse result. Corbyn got even less seats than Michael Foot .

EDIT "who did not have the intelligence to understand Mr Corbyn's message." and another reason you lost i.e. the sheer arrogance of Momentum followers that anyone not voting for Corbyn is too thick to understand the message. I understood it and that it meant the economy would be wrecked for my daughter, grand-daughter and any kids she may have. More than one Labour politician said this morning that the promises aimed at the young voters were undeliverable and unrealistic. Most people have more sense and realized that increasing the deficit to the extent Labour planned to would create a debt beyond our GDP especially when the inevitable (and un-costed) capital flight happened if Labour had got in.

 

The starting point for Labour now Is to go to the seats that they lost that have never been Tory and ask the people...WHY

 

I'm also gutted to see you lost your seat Skinner.

 

dan jarvis basically hung on against vicky felton by less than 1/2 the tory vote, labour and corbyn need to stop blaming other people and the media and look to themselves for this abject failure. i know that the loony left on here will start name calling and getting abusive and that isnt going to help either but thats all they've got abuse the other parties and gloss over our problems, that outlook doesnt/isnt going to work as lastnights ar5e kicking proved. give people a viable alternative that they want, politics like life has got to be flexible, as your life changes so do the problems you face so therefore politics should not be a 1940's style one size fits all. just the thoughts of a 63 year old broken ( but fixed by the magnificent nhs and a 1lb 6oz grandson saved by those heroes , by the way the little sods 5 and thriving) down old jedi who has been there, and got the t shirt. just be nice to each other, so what if your party lost/won, the election is over so move on. now about those reds, as bill shankley once said footballs not life and death. . . . its more important than that !. may the force be with you

 

We ve had 3 elections in the last 5 years. We have just had a referendum in all but name, Sky continuously called it the Brexit election.
The worse time to make decisions is when you've just been kicked in the stomach. Let things settle, see what people actually want from the Labout party but bear in mind they will continuously be slagged off over the slightest thing by the press.

My children are lucky in that I have a house bought and paid for that will always be their home. I hope they get the same chance I did to do the same for their children. ( or at least be able to have more long term security in rental accommodation) The same with jobs .

 

Well, it's clear they don't want social justice, a proper health service, personal care for their infirm mums and dads, smaller class sizes, a shorter working week etc etc. So someone needs to tell me,,,WHAT IN GODS NAME DO THE PEOPLE WANT??

 

They just wanted Brexit done with. Quite obviously even a good proportion of the remain voters saw that voting Con was the quickest way to resolve this issue. Most Tory voters realise what a liar and a cheat Johnson is, never have we had a bigger one as P.M. , but they have grown weary of all the Brexit talk. I have also, but I didn't and would never vote Con.
We now have to see what the next years bring - I have every confidence that Boris will make almighty cockups on the way, and eventually the public will bring him to task for that - hopefully.

 

Irony of this post , starts off loony left will be name calling . Have a look in the mirror ,

 

I supported Labour. Corbyn I quite like, but to me what was important were the policies. I've got no ties to Momentum btw.

The issue I'd take with this bolded comment is that you're drawing a picture of fact from an economic position where the bar is so low that we've had 10 years of austerity. What do you think happened after WWII and the debt we were in then? Did spending harm the country? No. The problem is people get used to drudgery, then believe they dont actually deserve any better.

However, and as Ive said before, this was Brexit Referendum II, it was not a standard general election. You think all these places that went Tory suddenly forgave the party and did a 180 turn about? No. To say otherwise would be idiocy. They voted Brexit, not Tory.

 

Labour simply have to fall on their sword, start from scratch and come up with a realistic, viable and costed approach to take these fuckers out next time.
They have let the country down badly by promising a lot of what any fair minded person could ask for and paying for it by (as John McDonnell spelled out on Sunday) simply borrowing the money.
This would have been a no brainer if everything didn’t need paying for. The vast majority of things that labour stood for are the things that we all want but whereas in the short term my oldest kids would reap the benefits, my youngest would then have to pay for it.
Nobody wanted these ******** to retain power but ffs labour get a grip on things, our votes are here to be won but not to the detriment of the next generation.

 

History doesn’t bear you out on this at all .
After World War Two when the troops were being demobbed Churchill was preaching austerity that the country was skint .
Clement Attlee was preaching A national health service . Privatising the mines and rail a massive social housing programme and a welfare state .
Every media outlet was calling them crazy policies as like today but the people had had enough of the richest living normal whilst they suffered and a socialist govt swept to power and enriched the otherwise miserable lives of the majority .
Your dismissal of the. Policies don’t bear out other than populist rhetoric you gave no proof only the rich propaganda machine telling you as they tried in 1945 .

 

I sat with a coffee and listened to John McDonnell tell me he was going to borrow the money.
Minimum wage going up to £10 would have very quickly either put prices up or casual workers out of a job.
This has been called another brexit vote but for me, brexit has not once entered my head. It is immensely frustrating that the torys were there for the taking but the threat of labour just saying yes “we’ll spend here and you can have what you like” to everyone who asked was just unfeasable and ridiculous.
Short term my family and I would have been better off under labour, wife’s a nurse, free tuition fees, free adult learning, better social care etc but at some point it has to be paid back.

 

They also said the creation of the minimum wage would put workers out of a job .
It doesn’t matter now it’s all what ifs . The country will have to suffer whatever this lot dishes out and my guess is they’ll be very few but big winners and lots and lots of losers .

 

I agree with you. Everyone I know and I suspect a lot that you do too have lost here and the fact that this has been allowed to manifest so easily is absolutely shameful. At no point at all was this result in doubt and that boils my piss

 

It doesn’t wash with me that people have voted Tory because of Corbyn , fair enough if you couldn’t vote for him but to vote for this lot in defiance just doesn’t wash at all.
The fact they have and will have to suffer the consequences with the rest of us. .
I feared for loved ones of us all who will need the NHS or care of some kind because this isn’t a government that will deliver ,

 

That's the gutting thing for me redhelen . I still rent ( housing acc) and could buy tomorrow and make an absolute killing but have chosen not to because long term it's a disaster for the younger generations . But what now ? We are looking at another 10 years of Tory rule and with their majority they can do pretty much as they please . Do I buy so at least my kids have at least a roof over their heads because the way it's going they ll get priced out ? I really do despair sometimes ........

 

The very people that spit the Labour party from the time Corbyn was elected leader, who if they were true Labour should have stayed and fought their case from within, I talk about Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, John Mann (R), Frank Field, Gavin Shuker, John Woodcock, Angela Smith (funny tinge) Ian Austin (R), Mike Gapes and Chris Leslie will not be seen in this new parliament they were either voted out or retired.

 

maybe we just let them see what happens when they do?

 

You cannot possibly compare (Oh! you did) the current situation re austerity now and austerity and debt after WW2.
Then the UK was practically bankrupt but the population had been im effect culled after huge losses in both miliary personnel and civilian casualties. We had full emplyment and a major reconstruction program. We borrowed huge sums during and after the War In fact the US 'lease lend' only finally got repayed in the past few years. London and most industrial cities took a hammering and temporary prefabs (remember some in Kendray) were clad with brick several years later (and are still there I believe).

All Labour Goverrnments, Wilson, Brown (albeit he was unlucky to be hit by the crash) etc. spent more than we could afford and racked up huge deficits.Wilson's nearly bankrupted us However these would have been dwarfed under Corbyn's Labour manifesto just after we have suffered 10 years of austerity to bring it down.
Even then the National Debt has gone up but at least in the scheme of things relative to GDP it IS now affordable debt and better than France (as just one example).
You don't know that Johnson will not fulfil his manifesto you are just guessing in the same way that many on here insisted that Brexit would never happen. Nor do you have crystal ball that says the EU will remain in its current state for the next five or ten years which, given the problems within the Eurozone, is unlikely especially when our contributions cease. The problem with the Pro Labour clique on here is they are still fighting a class war on behalf of the 'working class' which no longer exists in the way they seem to think it does.