Remainers

I think ultimately we ve all got to give the tories , under Johnson a chance . They ve pretty much been handed a blank cheque , but on the other hand less reliant on ERG type members moving forward . It pains me to say that but to try and discredit them now is a bit of a waste and could seriously backfire should they actually do a decent job over the coming years .

 

If the tories return public services to something like even 1990’s standards, so a better and quicker nhs service, bobbies on the beat, a fire service which isn’t under funded and undermanned, a welfare state which is fair on the infirm, the elderly, carers, those out of work not through choice and/or laziness, then I will gladly admit I am wrong.

I strongly suspect that not even any of our learned friends who returned a Tory mp in places like penistone, Don Valley, think that will happen though.

 

Who’s brexit? My mam who voted leave so we could get an extra 350 Million a week for the NHS?

my dad who is fine with freedom of movement and follows the leftist bennite line wanting a soft Norway style or yours?

What do you actually mean?

 

I could split hairs about a referendum vs a general election or the balance of the total votes cast but I don't feel there's anything to be gained by prolonging the argument. If enough people in the North of England think it's worth electing Tory MPs to get Brexit moving forwards then that's convinced me that it is indeed The Will of The People. I'm disappointed, of course, and I still think it's a mistake but I'm also strangely relieved. I can focus now on my own preparations for it, which are thankfully at an advanced stage. I wish we didn't have to have a Tory government into the bargain but that too is a clear democratic statement, for better or worse. My sympathies to those who will be badly affected by it.

I greatly enjoy the mixed content of the BBS and hope that it remains a single, rambling free-for-all rather than being partitioned up into separate sub-forums. I will however be endeavouring to stay out of political threads, and indeed political discussions, from now on. I've had enough of both over the last few years to last me a lifetime.

 

Insulting, criticising, complaining, moaning, you name it, but at least it's a football topic on a football forum.

 

If you insist on looking at it as a referendum, then Leave lost with only 46% of the vote. However in reality neither side can draw such conclusions from it. A lot of people will have still voted along party lines or for an individual candidate who they like.

 

for most of the 90's your examples were running under tory rule, so are you,in fact, bigging them up?

 

None of those services were particularly great for most of the nineties but they were not in the sorry state they are now.

I am not bigging them up no - but the Thatcher and then Major governments, in doing plenty wrong, perhaps didn’t make as big a mess of the nhs, policing and so on, as the governments of Cameron and May.

Although the standards did drop. I don’t aspire to 90’s levels by the way, we deserve better, it would just be a start.

 

You want to get yourself to Berlin, and have a Friday night in KitKat and a Saturday in Insomnia. Then see how you feel about being in Germany’s vice.

You might learn a bit about life while you’re at it.

 

Oh I really, really, REALLY hope they do.

 

I think that's the wrong tact. I'd urge you to watch the two videos below (and his entire output).

 

Thanks for those @Jay. I see where you're coming from but it doesn't really change anything for me. I'm not denying the mandate for Brexit, nor am I trying to dismiss the views of those who voted Tory and/or Leave. I'm not considering those northern communities that voted in Tory MPs misguided, rather I'm acknowledging that they felt strongly enough about this single issue to lend their votes (and I pray that is all they've done) to a party they wouldn't usually support in order to get it implemented. I'm not happy about the results, clearly, but I am accepting that they're the outcome of a democratic process and, that being the case, it seems to me that the right thing to do is to step back and let those who voted for this party/policy get on with it. I feel that I was willing to engage with people during the debates although I'm sure there are plenty of examples of me letting my frustration get the better of me, for which I will readily apologise. I'm assuming that more open debate is indeed what he's proposing - there's a lot of what not to do in those videos but not much in the way of constructive proposals. But in this last three and a half years I've felt an increasing helplessness in the face of public opinion and all I have to show at the end of it is a pointless vote against a hardline brexit MP and a UK exit strategy that will see my wife and me resident in different countries until at least 2026. I take the narrator's point that that's partly my fault too but I hope you can see why I feel the need to turn away from politics right now. Good luck to all of you.

 

They are only less reliant on ERG members if the new MPs aren't members of the ERG. Given that the "moderates" were thrown out, and new MPs had to sign to say they supported his deal, I suspect that the membership of the ERG will have increased somewhat.

 

To state the Tories got a clear public mandate over Brexkt is not exactly true. More people voted Labour and liberal than for the Conservatives in the election. Unfortunately due to our current electoral system, the Tories have a free hand to do what they want. Let the ride begin.

 

As I was saying...

 

The overwhelming message I took from these is to engage. And I just wanted someone with intelligence to be part of that, although obviously I respect your opinion, certainly with respect to the situation you're in. I hope you can sort it out. Everything is fc+ked. I think the only way out is to listen and talk.