Owners 3 days to save us

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by BarnsleyBomber, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    This is all well and good, and it gives you insight into matters of accounting, finance and administration. But (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I take it from what you are saying that you were a hired professional, bringing in your expertise in those areas, but not the businessman/entrepreneur yourself? Professionals who are not themselves the entrepreneurs are most often risk-averse (myself included). Businessmen/entrepreneurs succeed when they take on calculated risks in order to grow and progress their business. What level of risk is acceptable is another question. But complete solvency/security is unlikely to bring any progress. Yes - the Championship is a financial mess, but three teams will make it to the Premier League this season! Others will grow their crowds (possibly also their debts) and be ready for another push next season. I'm not so wedded to our club's survival that I want to watch it pointlessly labouring with inadequate resources and making no impact other than recycling young payers we've 'groomed'. There's something in there about dying on our feet rather than living on our knees, but it's too early in the day for me to sensibly formulate it!
     
  2. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Barnsley Football Club is our football club. I have been a supporter of my football club for 55 years. During that time I have invested my cash in it as a customer to watch games, but more than that, I have invested my hopes in it. Hopes that it can win, hopes that it can be better, hopes that it can continue. Throughout all of that time, I have never owned a single share in my football club. It was never mine in the sense that I owned it, but that did not stop me having those hopes and indeed those fears.

    Football club ownership has changed. When I first began watching, the shares were owned by the members of the community that the club represented. That ownership structure reflected the ideals that were bound up in the way all of our clubs were formed. That ownership structure changed. Jack Walker was the first. Owners who were still part of their communities but they had made a bob or two, and they were willing to invest back in their communities as a vanity project. There is still that sort of owner about, and Patrick Cryne was our example of that ownership style. But once again, football has moved on. New owners with no connection to the area or the club's origins came in. Because they have no connection to the area, their only motive for ownership is to make money from it. What else do you expect? Does that mean that Barnsley FC is no longer my club. Does that mean that I should have a reduced interest in its continued existence. Of course it doesn't. I had no shares in the club then, and I have no shares in the club now. If I try to punish a group of billionaires because they have not invested in my club, by refusing to attend and by refusing to renew my season ticket, who am I hurting. Am I hurting them, because they could ultimately lose the value of their original investment when the club goes under. Is £7m all that important to a group of billionaires. Or am I hurting myself, because the club that I have supported for most of my life goes bust.

    I am not about to be part of any scheme to hurt the owners, because ultimately, I will be shooting myself in the foot. What you do is entirely your own decision, and I hope that you agree that I have never tried to influence you in that decision. You have a different appreciation of risk and reward to the one that I have, but would you put your hard earned money into a football club. Would you be tempted to throw your cash away to try to enable the club to compete in the bear-pit that is The Championship, where billionaires compete to see who can afford to lose the most money. I mean only you will know how honest you are being as you answer that question, but with a lifetime behind me of supporting my club, I wouldn't.
     
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  3. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Not a straightforward question though, Mr Rain. IF I had the $9BN net worth that some sources credit to our owners I would absolutely be prepared to invest the £100M that Matthew Benham is said to have invested in Brentford. But some doubt that our owners have that wealth. And even if they do, it is by no means certain to be in the form of liquid assets. As a side issue, would say you say that Patrick Cryne invested any money he did not ultimately retrieve from the club? (And that is not a criticism of him.)
     
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  4. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I would say that Patrick Cryne got back the money that he invested via share capital and loans, but he did not get back the money he invested via gifts and donations.

    I doubt very much that our owners have $9BN in cash, because that is not how the calculation of wealth works. It works by valuing the sum of assets owned. Therefore, if their wealth is in quoted shares, it is calculated by multiplying the current share value by the number of shares held. If the wealth is in private companies, it is calculated by valuing the business etc etc. I would not expect our owners to have that sort of money lying around doing nothing.

    If you are a vanity investor like Matthew Benham, you are not looking for any reward or return on your money. You are happy just comparing the size of your wallet, and if you are happy to invest that sort of money in BFC, then go for it. But our owners are not that sort of investor. Mr Cryne could not find that sort of investor when he sold up. I would go as far as to state that that sort of investor does not exist for Barnsley FC. So we are looking at a different sort of investor. If you rule out supporter ownership, then the only type left is the type who wants to see a reward for their investment. The type that wants to increase the worth of the club, and sell it on for profit. Personally, I am not against that, because by improving the worth of the club, my club becomes a better run and more prosperous football club. The only question left is whether the policies being pursued by our owners will improve the value of my club over the long-term, that is over not just a single season, but over a much longer term. If the policies do achieve that then both the owners and I will be happy. We will have achieved our aim. If the policies do not achieve that, then neither of us is happy, and our owners start to look for a way out. Personally, I do not have a way out.
     
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  5. Hykehamtyke

    Hykehamtyke Well-Known Member

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    I suspected their alleged wealth from the off given what transpired at OGC Nice and rebuffs from several English clubs before PC let them come on board as he had little option before his death.

    I don’t believe these owners will be here long term, as others have said, they are about making a quick profit, gambling the clubs transfer income on total punts as has played out, hoping to strike lucky with a few players then they’ll move on when genuinely profitable player sales are completed, as their little football league experiment has failed.

    None of what they said they would try and achieve outside of club solvency has been accomplished in over two years of ownership, international investment being the main hope.

    The silence generally from their main mouthpiece, Paul Conway since the surprise win at home to Fulham speaks volumes to me. You couldn’t shut the guy up last season when their plan seemed to be bearing fruit in league 1 but now, now the plan has gone properly belly up, hardly a peep to appease the supporters. I read that as they simply do not care because, as you quite rightly say, we are just a business investment to them.

    Barnsley FC will be left to pick up the pieces, probably in a worse footballing position than when they took over.

    I cannot buy into their plan because their plan now appears to serve only themselves and not the success and growth of Barnsley FC.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  6. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    Their best punt at making the big time and bucks imo was to back Daniel. Bet they'll be kicking themselves when eventually another championship side picks him up and does just that.
     
  7. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    Good post. But let me ask a question. Assuming we are in League One next season what should the owners do?
     
  8. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    Re: Gifts and donations. I was told by an accountant close to the club that PC had changed the status of his 'injections' from gifts/donations to loans. Obviously, I don't know how true that is.
     
  9. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I do not know what they will do. This is what I would do.

    We know that we will lose £6m in turnover, but we also know that player contract have a relegation clause, which I reckon saves us about £2.4m, so we are down £3.6m. There will some players who will be out of contract in the summer, and from memory, none of these will be missed. There will also be players who are not attracted by the lower wages and who push for a transfer. These will be let go, provided the right deal can be found. That will leave us with the players who want to be here, mainly young players on long contracts. I remember the last time we went down. I thought that we were dreadful under Morais, but a season later we came back up. Last season, Rotherham went down with a record low points total, but this season it looks like they will come back up. I have said all season what a big jump it is from League 1 to the Championship. Conversely, it is a big jump in the other direction as well. I believe that our young players have struggled because they are young and they have little experience. If you add another year to their experience and age, they will be better for it, and I fully expect us to be competitive.

    How do you see it?
     
  10. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Mr Cryne loaned money to the club, which was converted into Share Premium (effectively Share Capital) shortly before he sold out. However he also introduced money through Gifts and Donations. For example, when we were chasing his last promotion under Hecky, the club needed another striker. SCMP effectively meant that we could not bring in that striker without incurring a punishment for breaking the salary cap, so Mr Cryne funded that loan signing himself. The Financial Statements that year made it clear what had been done a why.
     
  11. Bri

    Brian Mahoneys Waist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we can say that any of the coaches employed since the board took over haven't been backed.
    How they've been backed is a different manner.
    When they took over they said they wouldn't do anything crazy but make the club self sufficient and stable while steadily growing.It can be argued the growing bit is either not working or still in its infancy.
    I can't remember all the names but of the top of my head Hecky brought in Moore,Pinilos and Matt Mills all out of the "no under 23 " group.The club also offered over a million pounds for Joe Williams which was turned down.
    Stendel who in his own admittance was involved in the start middle and end of every transfer was also backed.I would say Radlinger,Bahre,Chaplin,Wilks and Diaby were all players Daniel wanted and got.Before anyone says they were choices off the spreadsheet (whatever)that is listen to what Daniel said about each of them and the players interviews.We also offered over 2million for the lad Turnbull from Motherwell which was rejected.On Turnbull I think we dodged a bullet there he's not played a game since as far as I know.
    Now to Struber it's obvious the board have backed him in his recruits so far again tweeking the strategy by bringing Ritzmair and Saullbaur in.I don't really see why we fetched the young full back in apart from cover assuming Cavere moves on.
    As far as I'm aware the board is in charge of the strategy and if we are to be relegated the buck stops with them that's the way of life the blame starts and finishes at the top.
    As for the actual signings should we look more at the recruitment team and the various coaches who are employed to build and create a team.They are the ones who select the players then pass it on to the CEO who in turn goes to the board to sanction and pay for the players.
     
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  12. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    I presume Red Rain has a source for that saving in wages?
     
  13. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    T
    The last time we were relegated we kept effectively the same squad. I think we swapped Bradshaw for Woodrow. We had Lindsay and Pinnock as centre backs (with Jackson as back-up) and Davies in goal. We had Moore as a very effective striker at League One level. I regret to say that even if we managed to keep the current squad together, it would be inferior to last time. So, based upon the scenario you outline, I can’t say I’d be overly optimistic.
     
  14. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    I can't see it myself, in fact I've more chance at playing for Barnsley this season than that happening.:)
     

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