Highest death rate from Corona virus in Europe

Is that on the cards, lowering the furlough?

 

Unfortunately the daily number of cases isn't dropping off as it has in Spain, France and Italy. Its flat lining at about 4k a day meaning that death rate, although dropping off from its peak won't fall as quickly as it should.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/uk-wage-cut-furlough-60-21977601

No we won't allow you to open up your business and we are going to give you 20% less money too. Not sure how that's fair but we won't have a hospitality industry left. Pubs, restaurants etc worrying times. Seaside resorts may never recover. I posted about this in a thread this morning but our best hope even more than a vaccine might be hoping Covid burns out like Sars did.....

 

Yes but not any time soon. Rishi Sunak has said they're looking at options long term and one is to lower it to 60% but it wouldn't be for at least two months.
I personally think it should be lower because too many businesses have used it as an easy way out. Employees aren't really going to complain at sitting at home for 80% but at 60% there is more pressure on business owners to keep them in work.

What I would say though is that id lower the figure for all businesses who haven't been told to close but I'd give a higher figure to any industry forced to close their doors.

 

The number of cases we report can be completely disregarded. We're not doing anywhere near enough testing to detect even a fraction of the number of cases there actually are. As such, the mortality rate of the disease cannot be accurately calculated.

In hospitals, reports count people dying with coronavirus infection rather than from Covid-19. Deaths outside hospital, who knows? But I think we all strongly suspect that many people are dying from Covid-19 and this isn't being documented. I'm not suggesting that would be easy to do, just that it isn't happening, because in many cases it can't. The same is true in hospitals. If you are in hospital for a life threatening condition and you also contract the virus, how does the hospital know, without extensive post-mortem research, for which we don't have the time or the resources, what has killed the patient? And even if that were happening it may be difficult if not impossible to know for sure.

IMHO, the best indicator of the number of people who have died from the disease is to look at the number of deaths above the average that have occurred this year during the time of the epidemic. This will also include deaths that have occurred indirectly from the Covid-19 epidemic. People who don't have the virus, fall ill with something else, but don't go to hospital, for fear of contracting the disease or not wanting to waste the hospital's time when they're so busy, and subsequently die, when usually they would have sought treatment and lived. And people who die because their treatment has been cancelled or their disease is never diagnosed because testing and screening has been cancelled. But personally I think such deaths should be included in the figures.

I'm not of the opinion that the death figures are deliberately misleading. I don't believe there is a way that would satisfy everyone. I don't believe they could ever be entirely accurate. That's different to my view on the number of cases we report, the number of tests we carry out, and the people we have targeted to test, all of which is entirely inadequate. And it's not just a case that the statistics we have are more or less meaningless, it's meant that a number of very vulnerable groups have been left entirely exposed and suffered the gravest of consequences.

 

As AM says, 1 death is too many- there are serious questions to answer on this. Still not sure now is the time to compare country to country as all will be counted differently and include some elements of politics and spin.
Without doubt mistakes made - not sure I or any others could have done better, even if we knew all facts and advice. but facts and all medical advice provided needs to be made public, so questions can be asked

 

Us and the USA numbers 1 and 2.

Who'd have thought it?

 

I think if Spain and Italy counted all their deaths outside of hospitals they'd outweigh those.

It was on the news saying that our figures for deaths have doubled for this time of year compared to the normal figures for seasonal flu etc.

 

The fact we’re an island doesn’t make that much difference to be honest. Airports like Heathrow are massive international travel hubs so we’re always going to have a lot of transit. Not making excuses for our shambolic initial response, we should have coped far better than we have done.

 

I was surprised to read that per capita, Belgium is the worst.

 

Disagree to a point. As we are an island it’s more difficult to cross borders without air/rail or sea transportation. So would/should have been easier to quarantine incomers. Was one of Boris’s claims early doors. The island logic. Pity he hasn’t done owt to even now put guidelines in place.
They’ve made basic errors that defy logic and still are.
I liken it to work. People making decisions up above without knowing how things operate at ground level. Not listening to advise from those affected. Scientists are needed to offer advise. But it’s no good saying how it will pan out without using advise from those having to deal with the situation here and now. Care homes being the biggest letdown by this government. Carers moving freely among residents without the proper ppe. A 5 yr old would have understood the requirements from day 1. It would have saved more lives, of that I’m sure. I don’t need to be a scientist trying to cover the governments arse to realise that. South Korea didn’t need scientists to tell em what was needed quickly. 2/3 weeks in Quarantine, one of the main steps for anyone entering the country straight away.

 

Whilst I am normally of the opinion that public enquiries are a waste of money, i am really looking forward to the one following this shambles, and the court cases to follow for those who will be found negligent.

 

That won’t be happening.

 

Italy certainly ounted care home deaths from the start in their figures, Spain it appears counted some but probably a reasonably large undercount.

 

Won’t happen mate. Just take a look at the Tony Blair war crimes issue. Blocked by Judges. 1/3 of the country want him to face trial. I wouldn’t normally agree but given the fact he ignored NATO ( or other world organisations) and went with Dubya. He should face trial. Government information can be hidden under the freedom of information act, if harm might result. Make of that what you will. Many issues not coming to light until after a set time period. 35 yrs if I’m right. Pretty sure someone could enlighten us more re the facts.

 

squally I'd agree with you but given that the warwould have happened regardless of who was in power ( unless maybe the Green party)

 

The votes in Parliament only passed with the total support of the Conservative Party - the size of the Labour rebellion would have defeated the government without that support.

 

We don't have the highest death rate as San Marino, Belgium, Andorra, Italy and Spain are all higher.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

We do have the highest number of deaths in Europe.

But since countries are all recording deaths differently we don't really know anything yet.

 

Maybe Helen. But he wouldn’t listen to loads in the Labour Party. Who were against going to war without more proof. The fact is there was no proof.
Just like thatcher gave the go ahead to sink the Belgrano. Against some of her top advisers who were telling her it was sailing out of the exclusion zone. And discussions were still going on in South America. Chile if I remember rightly to end the conflict peacefully. She deflected the unrest in the country to her policies. So people focused on the war.
As I said I would have not normally gone with a trial as I believed at the time the war was completely justified. To do with the atrocities carried out by Saddam on his own people and on the issue of weapons o m d. Which didn’t exist and was the catalyst/excuse to wage war. Other countries were still unwilling to enter into conflict without the proper evidence. The fallout is there for all to see. I struggle to see where the conflicts in the Middle East will be sorted. Ever.