Cummings witch hunt unfolding fast?

Yes of course, that works

 

God help some people if we ever become a one party nation they will have nothing to complain about.Oh sorry they will the bfc board.

 

i think you are being disingenuous toward the electorate there bud,

after being promised change in 1997 the electorate saw nothing of the sort and this is why we saw the rise of ukip and the likes of the bnp and various other parties

i completely agree marlon and this is why (even tho i still vote labour in GE's) i have very little trust in any of them

 

I wouldn't predict the result, not so many years away, but at least we are given the right to vote. Democracy can be powerful.

 

Hi MDG, I don't think the major issue is DC but rather dealing with the health issues of a global pandemic, how our government has performed during this time and finally the impact of it,short,medium and long term.
DC is a distraction to get people looking away from the 3 things I mentioned.
The Pandemic has damaged and derailed every government plans,around the world. The problem is that in the UK, the plan was No Deal Brexit, removal of International protections, increased Free Trade (unregulated), decreased immigration and further destruction of the State bodies. Next year these will be brought back, to a country impoverished by having no Trade agreements,a failing economy,higher unemployment,higher poverty levels,worse outcomes for ordinary people. Also a proportion of the population traumatised by grief and illness.
It's not about political affiliation, it's about having a competent effective government, that is working for the benefit of everyone.
My question to you and anyone else reading this is, do you believe the current PM capable of doing that?

 

Well this was a thread on the DC situation but as you ask.

I think there is a lot of water to pass under the bridge before we actually do end up with no deal.

Just because it looks that way now doesn't mean that is what is going to happen. I actually think we will leave with a deal. Just both sides at the moment looking to see who will bend on the first issue whether that's fishing policy or another.

I'd be super critical if we weren't playing a really stubborn game and rolling over to whatever the EU position is. So for the moment, haven't formed the opinion that no deal will be the outcome.

If anything I think we should be prepared to negotiate around the freedom of movement. Tourism industry is one of the areas massively impacted by the Covid-19 pandemic and to EU countries like Spain, Greece, Portugal and Italy it is one of their main sources of national income. If we make it as easy as possible for people to move freely in that respect, we start winning ground on other areas where the EU will have to move its position.

I don't expect to see major movement until the final weeks before the end of transition when I reckon there will start to be sudden miraculous breakthroughs.

As for the PM being up to it. Still open minded on that one as much as that will infuriate some people.

 

Thanks for the reply MDG, they have had 4 years to sort their position and now we are down to the last 7months. Freedom of movement works both ways and could damage and jeopardise individuals and companies who work in the EU. It's a mess and a sign of incompetence to let it drift.
He's a slippery character and I wouldn't be surprised if he changed tack completely in the next few months. The uncertainty is the main problem for me.
I hope things are well with you and your loved ones too.

 

Why do the EU have to bend or move on anything??! They’ve no responsibility to do anything like that - it was our bizarre decision to leave and they wanted us to stay. They quite rightly hold every single card.

 

That only applies to less than 70% of the population. The other >30% choose our government, they always have.

in really exceptional circumstances (like the last election) some people will ditch their usual party.

I’d like to bet that a high proportion of those first time Tory voters are already having regrets.

 

Johnson was fully prepared for ‘No Deal’ to happen last year - he forced his hand by illegally proroguing parliament. Do you think that was an accident?

We only have a chance of a deal now because ‘the people’ took the govt to court to reopen parliament.

I admire your faith in the face of such strong evidence.

 

Yep. I'm sure you're right. The trouble is that the main two parties have a vested interest in keeping the system as it is as they are the only two that can win although Labour seem to be trying to make that only one in recent years.

 

His spending which equated to about 20 billion and would have actually then ended up providing money back into the economy longer term is pennies compared to the amount of money the government are spending on furlough.

 

Fair point but it's a horrible, horrible reality that people chose to voice their discontent by voting for either of those two parties.

 

I disagree - there are those who have always voted red or voted blue ( probably older voters??) and they will never change but I think there are an increasing number of voters who may vote either way.
What we don't know is how many voters vote 'negatively' either due to party policy or personality i.e. those who voted for Johnson because they disliked Corbyn or vice versa - not because they agreed/disagreed with actual policies.
Extreme right wing or extreme left wing policies don't win elections. All parties know that the party that will win is the party holding the centre ground (something Blair realised.)
My guess is that come the next election there will be very little to choose between the policies of the two main parties.

 

I agree but I'm talking about the prospects for a change in the electoral system and an end to two party tribalism. That's what I see not changing because either the Tories or Labour are going to win and they will do nothing beyond continue the present completely broken status quo.

 

thats not true Churt , we had a referendum to change the electoral system in 2011 brought as a condition by the LibDems in putting the Tories in power It was massively rejected , so not just the two party’s to blame I’m afraid but also the British People didn’t want it

 

True, Marlon they didn't. And here we are.
And where is there any or where has there ever been any push from the Tories or Labour to actually change anything?
There hasn't. And we're now in a situation in the country and on this board where the polarisation is entrenched. I'm as guilty as any because you would struggle to convince me that a liberal/socialist agenda isn't the best for this country or any other. We have a system now though that is so partisan that the Tories ARE able to peddle outrageous lies and get away with it because they know their base will defend it.
They know they only need 37 to 40% of the country to eat up their lies and they can keep on doing it.
I'm not having a go at you or anyone else but, for me, the two party system has to change.

 

A few years ago I was against this, but now I’m coming around to thinking we need a change of direction in our policy system. I agree ( of course) about the Liberal/ Socialist agenda being the best. However, I also believe this Country spurned a great chance to change the Status Quo by not voting for a Labour Govt. at the last elections. We all saw the incredible media attack on Corbyn, some of it deserved, but the rest was outrageously exaggerated and untrue far more often than not. Prior to this we saw the lesser left- leaning Milliband, labelled as Red Ed receive the usual Tory- dominated press character assassination. It’s all well and good saying we can get rid at the next elections, but a lot of damage will have been done by then, and unfortunately the press/ media influence the general public far more than we care to admit

 

I’m not so sure that’s entirely true mate tbh
There’s many staunch Tories angered about this as anyone else .
There’s certain things that the political class outrage people and unites them whatever their colours .
Agreed mostly tribal Tories will rally round and still parrot the he’s done nothing wrong mantra but they can be seen through .
And same goes for the Labour Tribalists as well .
The people are united that Cummings has done wrong and that the PM has wasted a lot of his goodwill backing him .
I think you’re wrong on this he’s got away with I don’t think he has tbh .
I myself have joined political backlashes against the political party I favour . most of us are tolerant of who we voted for but the majority imo will be outraged .