George Floyd

Sorry but that is palpable nonsense. People like me? You mean somebody who can condemn the killing of a black man but also condemn violence from protesters? There is no justification for what happened to George Floyd and no justification for looting and rioting.

 

Voting between Dems and Republicans are just two sides of the same corporate coin. It's like being continually asked to vote for someone to punch you, or someone to slap you.

"I don't want either!"

"Ahh, but something has to be better than being punched! Just vote Democrat"

Economically they're very similar and that structure changes little regardless of the vote.

 

It is very odd the way some people's minds work.

 

Wait the witnesses tell what story? What did the witnesses say that said they had evidence it was racist?

 

Again
I’m not talking about this specific murder, why do you want to argue a point no ones making?

 

A riot, in part is the cry of the unheard. It's a symptom of oppression. So there's no justification for his killing but there is an explanation for the looting, which is a socially and economically disenfranchised part of the US population which has seen hundreds of years of living under the boot of oppression and has continually being ignored because of a system designed to do so.

Yet you're bothered about broken buildings and stolen trainers and how it effects just one man getting justice?

Check your privilege.

 

Sorry I thought you was talking about this one as the thread is called George floyd. Not sure why you need to put murder in bold as if you are hinting that I've said it's anything but

 

Because you’re trying to pretend that the US police are completely non racist. I’m calling bullsh1t.

 

If you're a keen antifascist you aren't destroying the communities of the people you are trying to protect from fascism.

Agreed. If you're doing those things, you're not Antifa. You're either a nuckle head looking for kicks or a fascist trying to undermine then - or worse still a state sponsored actor doing the same.

It acts in small groups. That's its strength, and also its also its weakness because it, as you suggest, means anyone can resemble (let alone act as) a member. As such it leaves itself open to the state embedding itself in its groups, or far right goons, and you can guarantee it will just as has happened over here.

 

You show me anywhere that I've said that. Anywhere at all.

I have said that the murder of a man at the hands of another man does not automatically constitute a racist attack simply because one was white and one black.
The only facts anyone knows about this killing was that one guy was white and worked for the police and the other was black. From that they've automatically assumed it HAS to be due to racism. That is in my opinion unhelpful as it causes riots and scares the crap out of the black people in America.

Is it not possible that the murderer was simply an utter cun.t who would kill anyone he could? His previous history suggest that to be the case

 

Definetly will have.

There will be genuine people wanting to make a positive difference. Thugs who just want an excuse to cause trouble and also people deliberately wanting to destabilise or cause trouble for political gain.

I don't particularly like the Antifa organisation because I don't think you need to be part of an organisation to make a stand. If I went and demonstrated it would be me as a person, not me as a member of Antifa. I have my own mind and make my own decisions.
But not particularly liking them doesn't mean im too stupid to realise that the genuine members and the controversial members are not the same people. I don't understand why others can't see that.

 

It's not racist, but it's misguided. It unintentionally takes the side of the oppressor in that it uses the very similar arguments they use.

"Be reasonable and we'll give you justice"

The oppressor has never been reasonable, had it done so there'd be no riot in the first place. QED.

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." - Desmond Tutu

Give them justice, good jobs, healthcare, etc. and there will be no need for riots. There's a reason they don't riot in the Hollywood Hills.

Edited for clarity.

 

How's about you judge Obama on his record instead of how great things would be if he were still in charge instead of trump . Obama care was a disaster , Americans pay 18% of GDP on healthcare , to compare the average European country pays between 10/12% . The Dems had both control of the senate and House during Obama's first term and did nothing but deals to suit big pharma /insurance . The Dems are effectively just another republican party . Thinking that trump is the problem is to deny reality that trump is merely a symptom of the problem , not the cause .

 

I agree with that but that brings me round to the race issue again.
I believe that black Americans have it harder because of the areas they live in being poorer. That leads to everything you've just described but as well as riots it leads to crime. Crime leads to confrontation with police. And in ****** up America confrontation with police leads to death.

People seem to refuse that this cycle can be the reason for this though and instead as our wonderful data analyst says it must mean that every police killing is racially motivated. It isn't. It just isn't. Black people are killed more by police because they are involved in confrontation with police more because of their lack of opportunities. They aren't killed more simply because police take one look at them and think ha a black man I'll murder him. It's a ****** up world where people think that is more believable

 

There is very little difference between those who follow a hard right and those who follow a hard left dogma. It has been argued more than once they are two cheeks of the same arse.

A lot of the political violence over the last few years in the states, to a lesser extent the UK and not forgetting the smashing up of Hamburg has be attributed to these new styled Anti fascists who carry out actions you’d prescribe to... facists.

 

Are you quoting from the Antifa handbook? Have you seen the images? There are white people also looting and rioting. There is no justification for it and it is nothing to do with privilege. So in your world what you're doing is applying cultural relativism to justify criminal activities. Just stolen trainers? You need to practice your straw-man a bit.

Defend and justify the actions of those looting all you want but it is reprehensible and will not do anything to assist with getting George Floyd the justice he deserves. But yeah some of those looting will feel a whole lot better now they have some Nike trainers or a designer handbag. Justice clearly comes from inside the stores in shopping precincts.

 

I dont live in america in or around where this is happening, but obviously black Americans feel they are and have been treated differently for years by the police hence why they are reacting like theh are and many white Americans are supporting them.