Got Brexit done

So, you voted to leave which left the country with a governing party that has gone further to the right on a racist/nationalist agenda than it was before. Hate crimes have increased. The Far right has been emboldened. We have a home secretary of Indian/Ugandan descent gleefully bringing in rules that would stop her parents entering the country. EU Nationals and Northern Irish citizens have had rights removed - after many promises before the referendum not to - and the tories keep talking about removing the UK from the ECHR (putting the UK on a level with only Belarus with the continent).

How has that worked out for you?

 

When we voted in the Brexit referendum of 2016 none of us had any idea what sort of governing party we would have in 2020.
So it doesn't make sense to imply that because I voted to 'Leave' I am somehow resposible for the present machinations of the Home Secreary and others.
Remember we had a General Election on Dec 2019.

I voted Leave because I saw the EU becoming more Nationalistic - look what is happening in Spain - Germany - Italy -Estonia - go on google it.
The more Nationalistic a country or organisation in my judgement the more likely it is for racism to flourish.

And so I voted 'Leave' because if the UK government was promoting a racist agenda it would be easier to counter that in the ballot box.
It would be far harder to do anything to stop the UK Government following a racist agenda if we were part of a Nationalist EU.

 

Leavers were - wrongly - seen as Racist - The reality is the Remainers would have had us tied to an increasingly nationalistic EU.

 

Sweeping generalisations are fine when it suits mate.

 

I saw the EU becoming more Nationalistic - I think I was right - in my judgement racism is more likely to flourish in a country/organisation with a Nationalistic Government.
I thought that if UK was part of the EU which was heading in a more nationalistic direction then if the UK government had racist policies it would be difficult to oppose them.
If the UK had racist policies and was outside the EU it would be easier for us to challenge them because we had more autonomy over our law making.
And so I voted leave.

 

That’s a brilliant explanation,,, almost Cummingsesque! ,,,, Almost

 

FR - admittedly my sense of logic has been questioned in the past !

a question for you - if our government adopts racist policies do you think we the eloctorate would have a better chance of challenging them if we were -
a) in or
b) were out of an increasingly nationalistic EU?

 

But the EU is not able to restrict the growth of nationalism - recently the German AfD out polled Merkel's party in part of Germany. Look at France Spain Hungary.
There is no question that Nationalism is on the rise (it doesn't follow that racism will automatically follow but nationalism could be a basis for racism.)

If you're right that the growth of Nationalism in the EU doesn't influence government policy then there's no problem and if I felt that I'd have voted Remain.
But my view is that the EU will have an impact on our government policy.
Being out of the EU in my opinion means we can have more influence on what is turning out at present to be a worryingly right wing/racist?? administration.

 

Bale or Ronaldo? Not meaning to be facetious here, I know this story is hundreds, possibly thousands of people's livelihoods, but the sum concerned is what would be paid for one top level footballer. Does stuff like this never make you stop and think, football is properly ******? We complain about our board, and how the season is to be decided, but what does it matter? I don't know what point I'm making. All I know it's something's wrong somewhere.

 

Thanks - no we are logical but have different perspective on things.
I think UK racism is best challenged if we're out of the EU you have perfectly valid opposing view.
(My view greatly influenced because of my part Czech heritage - knowing the destruction wreaked on the country and its people by the German Nationalistic Government of the 1930s/40s)

 

The polling for AfD collapsed in Germany after they went too far in criticism of Merkel after she was self-isolating - its is down around 9% now, after regularly polling 15-16% up until February - and at one point was nearer 20%. In Berlin, the leading party was Grune (Greens) in the last opinion poll by around 5% above CDU. Countrywide, CDU/CSU is 15% above Grune and SPD and 32% above any other party.

France hasn't run any polls for nearly a year (October), but Macron and Le Pen were neck and neck. Macron's approval has increased significantly due to COVID, from -38% to -19% (it was 0% at one point though). The position there depends on the recovery of the economy in the next 2 years. Even Le Pen has dropped leaving the EU as an option thanks to the UK.

Spain has a socialist, pro-EU government that was elected last year - since the Catalonia issue blew up in 2017 (although that is a separate issue).

Yes, Hungary and Poland have issues. But our own issues are worse than any of those countries.

 

i have done no research on the czech situation you describe but would it possibly have been headed off at the pass so to speak if we have been in some sort of EU situation back then?

 

In 1938/39 the Munich Agreement (Peace in our Time) allowed Hitler to have the Sudetenland if he promised not to invade the rest of Czechoslovakia. He got the Sudetenland and then invaded Czechoslovakia and then invaded most of Europe. I don't think that had Germany been part of any type of EU it would have made any difference - Hitler was a megalomaniac!
I think the most Nationalistic leader nowadays is President Orban of Hungary leader of the far right Fidesz party.
Difficult to assess how much being part of the EU keeps him 'in check.' It is reported that Putin is cosying up to him and the other leaders of the Eastern countries in the EU.
Not sure about Poland - there was a move for independence from the EU but the Poles are very aware they need the strength of the EU to deter any Russian threat from the East.
If there is an increasing rise in Nationalism in the EU members then there must be an increased likelihood of those countries opting out of the EU.
What we don't know is how the economic problems which will occur as a result of Covid shut down will affect each country in the EU and the EU as a whole.

 

thanks, obviously the United Nations and NATO are the prime peace keeping forces we have but id like to believe the joint response of a political union may have worked to stop all the above.That maybe a little optimistic of me of course with what we know about the Germans of the time and Hitler.