My ancestors didn’t own SLAVES

And yet people want to remove and destroy all visible links to slavery renaming buildings , street names destroying statues etc. What your post does is endorse my view that rather than destroying them we should, in the case of statues remove them to museums referencing the slave trade and putting them into context. Street names and buildings could have a plaque highlighting the connection.

When you encounter kids, as I have, who did not know who Adolf Hitler was (I kid you not!) then we need constant reminders of our past, good and bad. As I said before... 'Lest we forget'

 

Indeed. Mrs Burgundy Red and I speak French to French people and in their company, obviously, but generally English to each other even when we're out and about. It'd feel weird to do otherwise. But I know some people (in the UK as well as France) have an issue with hearing foreign languages spoken in the street and consider it a sign of non-integration. Where does one draw the line?

 

I’ll ask you directly, we’re you aware of Colston this time last week? Or like most of us were you completely unaware?

I’d suggest removing the statue has added to, rather than ‘hidden’ the lesson in history.

 

Yes.

 

Some years ago there was just me and this 85 year old Indian woman sat on a rubber plantation in India.
She was the owner of the plantation.
I should have recorded what she had to say about the British occupation of India.
As usual - many people abroad think better things about the British than what some people in Britain (examples can be seen on here) think about themselves.
Some British people may have been involved in things like the slave trade.
But this world is a much better and more democratic and liberal place than what it would have been without the great efforts and sacrifices of the great British people.

 

The past is the past, we cant change it but we can learn from it which should make us better people in a better society. A big focus seems to be on the past and its symbols and statues.

Now what about the future something we can influence if we have learnt anything about equality, fairness and doing whats right. So what symbolises modern slavery. Shall we start with debating.... zero hour contracts?

 

Statues should be about people that have positively contributed to society such as pioneer Scientists , Doctors ,Nurses etc .
They shouldn’t be about rich people and what they did with some of their money .

 

I might be wrong but I think what symbolises modern slavery is modern slavery.

Zero hr contracts are just the price we pay for allowing the destruction of workers rights.

here’s how we allowed that to happen: buying newspapers that demonised unions and the working class. Unions that became increasingly irrelevant and dug in to seal their own fate. Socialists that believed they’d ‘fixed’ the plight of the working class and became increasingly distracted by identity politics and arguing amongst themselves. And the same old right wing playing the same old game of ripping off the working class and blaming the ‘foreigners’.

It’s not even radical - but it requires all of us to admit our own unique place in letting the side down.

 

They shouldn't. But they are and have been in the past. Thats my point. Should learn from the past on how to do it better these days

 

Liverpool have a museum on slavery and that’s where things like this should be imo designated places to learn and visit ,

Alas that’s always been .
Eg , Spanish Civil War where Francos forces were far inferior in numbers but the opposition were so fractured they often fought against each other enabling Franco with the aid of Nazi Germany prevail .

 

Oh yes... Franco's forces of evil were almost at Barcelona's door where those in the 'commune', the socialists, communists, anarchists and lots of other factions decided to fall out and kill each other: priceless.

 

See also - the Labour Party in the 80’s and since 2010

 

Don’t mix up labour and socialism. That’s why there have been mps setting up different parties to suit their agenda. Eg SDLP.
We would have been better served getting shut of the centre MP’s out of labour.
Labour was built up by the unions. Now it try’s to cater for some of the middle class and working class 10 bob millionaires to try and attain power.
But as I’ve allus said. Better than any Tory party for workers on ANYTHING you care to mention.

 

Well said

 

Unfortunately though, the working class no longer share the socialist principles the Labour Party was built on. The Labour Party might respect the working class, but the feeling isn’t mutual. We can argue all night that it should be, but you only have to read this board to see how many of the working class don’t care about the plight of their neighbours.

If the Labour Party didn’t attract middle class socialists it’d be completely irrelevant by now.

 

We were one of the first, not *the first* to abolish slavery.

Denmark/Norway abolished the slave trade in 1803 - we did it in 1805
We finally abolished slavery in the Empire in 1843 - after Serbia, Greece, Bolivia, Uruguay and a number of other countries.

 

Sadly at the present time I agree. I can only live in hope.

 

Steer clear mate. A man who lauds the past. Claiming the working class built this country. Then has the audacity to laud the Tory party.
He’s forgotten his roots and the hard fact that those same people fought for the rights we have today and supports a party that wishes to take those rights away. FFS. I refuse to get involved with anyone that bluffs their way out of straightforward questions.

 

Nice to see Nigel Farage got the boot from LBC.

 

I’m probably an idiot but what are you hoping for?

That all white collar workers vote Lib Dem and Labour joins up with UKIP?

Or that magically the working class will remember that they’re being repressed by the people they voted for, and that rather than ‘personal freedom’ they’re actually voting to keep the rich richer at their expense?

Because I believe neither are likely to happen, I think it’s time to stop getting angry and fighting amongst ourselves.