My ancestors didn’t own SLAVES

I generally find those that believe that it can’t/won’t happen are ones that don’t want it to happen. I’ve learnt that as a union rep. Defeatists.
Exactly the same with those that won’t vote cos everything’s nailed on in their eyes.
I know lots that didn’t vote on Brexit cos they thought Cameron would win hands down and couldn’t be arsed. And indeed 1 or 2 that regretted the very next day they voted leave.

 

Im not a defeatist, I’m a lifelong labour supporter with an extended family of lifelong labour supporters.

And I took your original post as a personal insult, you don’t want any of us voting labour cos we’re now white collar wine drinkers. You want to replace us with a bunch of selfish UKIPPERS, because they’re ‘working class’.

Thatcher killed their sense of ‘society’ and a Farage has invigorated their propensity for racism, but you see them as ‘naturally Labour’ whilst us natural socialists out working for a fairer society are something else.

 

What original post are you referring to. If your on about the reply to Churton reds. Jesus Christ you need to look at the O/P who I was referring to.
Where the rest of the **** you’ve referred to as my views god only knows.
Where have I said anything that would offend you. I can only assume you’ve misinterpreted my points.
I too vote labour but I would much prefer a Labour Party to be more socialist than watered down tories.

 

this is your post I’m referring to.

and you calling me defeatist because I don’t believe the KIPPERS are going to see the error of their ways and come back to labour.

 

Young Nudger in “my ancestors didn’t own slaves shocker”.
I can categorically state now that any rumours about Nudger’s ancestors, or even he himself owning slaves is a scurrilous lie. It has been pointed out that there is a rumour of several “slaves” being kept in what was once his coil ‘oil. When interviewed on the matter Mr Nudger stated clearly for this newspaper that he was only giving them a roof over there heads while the Covid crisis was on. He denied ever having sent them darn to t’shop for a Chronicle, fags, booze, or owt else. He has been kindness himself to this family and he had to do summat wi his tatie pealings anyway.
It is now hoped that this will put the matter to bed for once and for all. Leave the lad alone.

 

WHAT. My view is the centralists MP’s in the Labour Party. do the Labour Party I wish to see, an injustice.

That’s why I believe Corbyn was the closest leader I’ve ever seen/wanted in my lifetime to get anywhere near to a fairer society. Those that formed . SDLP did labour no favours.

I never called you personally a defeatist (only you know if that’s the case I was generalising what I confront every day at work or in conversation with such people) I was inferring to why I thought my hopes will one day materialise by folk not falling for the same old same old.

Black lives matter has to a degree United the country on racism. The young uns have made that clear. Hopefully a call for a fairer society may be the next stage.
I’ve never criticised anyone that votes labour. I do have a problem with working class. 10 bob millionaires (Why Labour was formed by the unions) That are selfish and indeed vote Tory

I also know many middle class and indeed who we’d refer to as upper class who vote labour on principle

I didn’t intend the previous related comment to be seen as a complete generalisation. If you saw it that way I will apologise. If not please explain. I have also edited the original as the way I meant it to be read.

The UKIP thing I’m a little bit lost. I used brexit as an example of how people took for granted the result would go the way of stay. I have never castigated anyone for voting Brexit on any other grounds than racists. Who did not make a reasoned judgement.

I also accepted the result.( after voting stay) But I genuinely believe if a ballot was held today we may see a different result given more knowledge of the pro’s n con’s.

Although I vote labour I am allowed to criticise some goings on in the party.

 

Just out of interest who is 'we' because what happened 400 years ago has no bearing on my life and its nothing i condone, so what exactly must i learn if i'm included in 'we'?

I dont treat anyone differently just because of the colour of their skin

 

There’s clearly some crossed wires, I did see the generalisation. No harm done.

We’ll agree to disagree about JC; I don’t disagree with his socialism but he’s not a ‘Leader’ and like it or not, that’s more important than his principles in politics.

the reason I brought up the Kippers, is that they are unfortunately part of Labours past.

when I started work for the council in the early 80’s, all my colleagues were in the Union and voted Labour. But a fair proportion of them were racist, almost all were sexist etc etc.

I’ll take a bet that the majority of those blokes are now ardent brexiteers.

My current colleagues are largely very middle class, highly educated, and I’d bet almost all are labour voting remainers.

So I don’t believe that the Labour Party have abandoned the working class or that they could do more to attract them back (they’d have to become IKIP). I fear a large section of the working class have abandoned the working class, conned by Murdoch and Farage.

 

Sometimes I wish I could keep my opinions to myself.

 

Seconded, your opinions I mean

 

Lol !!!

 

It seems when you have an opinion it’s us who are entitled to it .

 

Mrs Burgundy Red is English too right?

The one area I find to be weird is when foreign (or people with foreign heritage) parents who I assume have been living here for some years speak to their child in their foreign language instead of speaking English around them.
I don't think it's wrong or ever feel offended by it but when I see it (or hear it) I do always feel that it seems odd to me that the child is being brought up with their country of birth and where they've lived all their life being their second language.

 

DP

 

agree, but there should also be a place for the anonymous statues that represent a generic group of people.
I think the one of the miner and his family at the bottom of Victoria Road is brilliant. (is it one of Graham Ibbeson's ?)
Also like the one commemorating the Oaks Disaster.
Only seen an image of the one by Ibbeson depicting a family marching from Jarrow but it is another powerful one.

 

How so? I would have to disagree. Short term yes, but without physical reminders being present (wherever they may be placed), as a constant reminder, the actions of the few who removed it will soon be fade into memory and forgotten, if not by this generation, but future generations.
I do agree that many councils have dragged their feet over contentious statues which the recent event in America acted as a catalyst brought things to to a head. Nevertheless, it requires a long term strategy as to how we deal with them in the medium term.
A national museum dedicated to the subject and history of slavery through the ages....Hmmmm!! not sure how much of a draw that would be. Educational school and college visits alone would probably not make it viable unless major patronage could be found. Erasing evidence of the era of slavery IMO is not an option.

The problem is though, slavery and racism are two separate issues. Some slavery obviously went 'hand in hand' with the most extreme forms of racism leading to barbarity and inhumane treatment, but there was probably as much , if not more, slavery coming from conflicts, religious and tribal, criminal activity ..piracy...warlords etc motivated by greed etc. not related to racial differences.

The event in America was about racism, but it has stirred up a whole argument about slavery which, unfortunately is, to me, a distraction from focusing on the 'here and now' how to fix the problem we have in society now i.e. racism and not dwelling on what happened in the past.

EDIT: In answer to your question, NO I was not aware of Colston never having been to Bristol Why would I be. I was well aware though that various monuments exits dedicated to people with dubious history One being Nelson in Trafalgar square who had a terrible reputation for ill treatment of sailors floggings etc

 

As I said people who have made a positive contribution .
The statues to miners family would be among those and also the unknown soldier as I think it commemorates lives lost rather than glorifying war .

 

Agree to most of that. But I believe Corbyn would have been a good leader if the rest of the party adhered to most. ( not all) of his principles. Their were enough tories out to belittle him without some of the labour mp’s doing the same.

I believe he became unelectable due to most of the character assassination heaped on him not only by the media but people close to the party. Trying to create their own agenda. Yet bojo was projected as a leader not the clown he was/is. This virus may have made him grow up a little. But he’s still an odious person. And the people voted for him.

I’m gobsmacked people of working class supported. Bojo. Gove. Rees Mogg etc to act in their best interests. Hopefully if some folk voted Tory because of the Stance on brexit. They come back to the fold so to speak.

Just hope Starmer has similar principles. I think the media etc will be hard pressed to perform a similar character assassination.

Also strike while the irons hot after things return to best normal. and lay into this government for point scoring. Labour can possibly introduce more socialist principles.

Believe me it’s not something I like to say. But if it was the other way round I absolutely believe the tories would be going all guns blazing.

The things around covid have highlighted what a waste of space this outfit have been.

 

Let’s hope the next ballot box brings this government down. After their ill treatment of the most vulnerable /disabled etc in society due to austerity. Without inflicting any monetary pain on to those that could afford it most.

 

Scottish. So she says.

Our British friends here tend to speak English with their kids. That way they end up bilingual (and they all are - it's sickening). When I moved back to the UK years ago with a Swedish girlfriend and her young daughter we only spoke English in the house (as we were advised to) and the daughter lost her Swedish after about a year which was a terrible mistake we made, IMHO.