Is it possible

I think if the owners were clear that was the motivation then I actually think the majority of supporters, myself included, would be delighted to hear that. Indeed what you set out, is the archetypal private equity investment thesis.

 

We dont want to be all Wednesday do we

 

I also agree with this.

If your customers don't understand what on earth you're playing at then it's your job as a business to explain it to them in better terms. The unique nature of the relationship between a football club and its supporters makes this arguably less necessary to keep them coming back, but if you choose not to then you deserve everything thrown at you.

 

Reporters write stuff in order to attract readers. They are selling a service, and if they write stuff that no-one wants to read, then they are not doing their job. I have read the article and it it no more than professional click bait. I do not care if no-one reads the stuff I write, but you can rely upon me to write the stuff that I truly believe, even if no-one likes what they read. Your evidence that our owners know very little is really weak. They have achieved the near impossible, they have appointed a Coach who has got results, and scores of people have discounted their achievement. Now I will grant you that they were lucky, but if you have a long term plan that spans many seasons, it is probably not too vital what happens in any one of them. They are running the business entirely using sound long-term business principles. If the team had been relegated, it would not have affected those business principles. The fans judge the owners entirely upon performances on the field, and based upon the performance in a single season. There is a fundamental mismatch in the aims of the two groups.

 

But will we be relegated in the courtroom or by a panel?

 

Personally, I believe the cases of all three clubs are very weak.

 

There are some hugely subjective sweeping assumptions in that paragraph. I judge the owners on integrity, transparency and the words they place in the public domain. I judge them on available information which hasn't been obscured from view (which sadly is little). So since you sweepingly said "The fans", being as I am "a fan", that statement is categorically false and merely your subjective view.

The football league judges clubs over a season, by compiling a table. And this season, there have been several extraordinary factors that have come into play.

A global pandemic that caused a closed season length break mid season. Upon the restart, the removal of fans from stadia. And a bizarre situation at Wigan where a club post take over, mid pandemic, went into administration with just weeks of the season left.

People can form their own opinions about the impact of those. It could be subjectively construed that while they have adversely impacted the club financially, they benefitted the coaches and players by allowing extra coaching time, to forget the negativity of their last performance and simply allowed time to add a little maturity to very young players. But what I'm sure is irrefutable, is that no contingency plans were in place for a small football club in the championship to deal and contend with the pandemic.

The likelihood at any other time (and this may still be the case) is that this club would have been relegated again. Indeed, if (and as you rightly point out, its impossible to know in hindsight of an alternate outcome) if the owners had listened to Stendel and given him some experience, we might not have been in such a position anyway. Of course, we could also have finished on 13 points. there is no way of knowing.

So all we can do is openly evaluate what we see, and what information is out there.

Have the club attained survival this season? Maybe. Did we (maybe) survive because of ownership actions? Maybe. did we survive (maybe) inspite of ownership actions and other factors, Absolutely. That is irrefutable.

 

How can a paragraph that contains the word maybe, at the same time be irrefutable.

Sorry. That is me being a pedant. We each have a right to argue our position, but at the end of that same day, all we really know is what actually happened. We can argue until we are both blue in the face, but the owners will be unaffected by that argument. Much of my position on things is based upon that simple fact. We have no power to change anything. We can only try to understand what happened, and try to work out the reasoning behind it. That is all I do. I do not automatically assume the decision is wrong, or that the owners are taking me for a ride. I try to work out what the motives for a decision were, based upon the policy and past decision-making logic. Sometimes posters treat me like I am the owner's apologist. Someone who is far more approachable, who they can insult, as they would like to insult the owners. I know no more than anyone else, but I do have a more open mind, and I do understand their motives, and that is all.

 

If funds allowed it would you bring in an experienced midfielder or big lad up front?

 

Your question asks me what I would do. I spent most of the last 9 games questioning the teams that Struber picked. I said that he was playing to many players outside their comfort zones. I questioned the press and the diamond, and whether they were effective. In particular, I said that we should be playing 3 big lads at the back. It is clear from our survival that I know even less about football than I thought I did. My guess is that Struber will continue with the same ideas next season. The answer to your question about a big man up front is yes I would, but that makes for a far less effective press because a big man cannot work hard enough to sustain the classic press. Rather than being an accident that Moore left, I think that it was planned as part of the change in team structure that the owners want to see, along with the press.

Mowatt will be a big miss if he leaves. Everything goes through him, at the minute and it will be hard to find someone who has the work rate and the ability, but who is an instant fit. I honestly do not think that we will see an experienced signing this summer. I think that Mowatt's replacement is more likely to be a young loanee from the Premier League.

 

Lets hope Mowatt stays

 

Just to add I agree about Moore. I think under the new system that you could see that in pre-season and with the recruitment of Wilkes, Thomas and Chaplin. I think Moore and Woodrow would have been competing for the same jersey.

 

The "maybe" relates to our survival. In that we might not yet have survived. So its not being pedantic, its simply not understanding the context of that maybe.

Without Wigans bizarre administration, we would be relegated. That's irrefutable. Thats before the break for covid and a chance to regroup, rebuild fitness which our game is very much based on, and the potential assistance from young players not feeling pressure from the stands.

I too like to apply logic and the central tenet of your position of other clubs being insolvent, or even worse, committing fraud to try and outcompete is completely valid.

Where i look at it differently is that the past needn't have been, and all decisions could have been different.

I've been around many turnaround practitioners and where the likes of Conway have taken on a business and only looked to flip it for me without doing anything of merit. They dont have to improve the club or the team to make a return. They merely have to convince someone else that its worth the amount they ask. And when you see insolvent chains of retailer being flipped from hedge fund to hedge fund in the past, well... there are many concerns and their motives and objectives are unproven.

 

Why not?

 

I attempted to drop out of that thread unnoticed. I did not want to cause a stir, but equally, I did not want to answer questions about it. I can assure you that I have my reasons, but I would rather not share them, even via the private message board.

 

ok.

 

Well said. I was against being owned by them because we ended up becoming the play thing of another foreign business with zero connection to the town. Majority of people at the time were googly eyed and desperate for moneybags, so yeah.

That said they're clearly being very prudent financially and sense the financial tide is turning in the favour of well run clubs. Their motive is clearly to make money but they think they can do it by following Cryne's strategy of buying and developing good young players, selling them on and buying better young players for more money whilst keeping the profit margins.

Realistically, regardless of who is in charge, that is the best strategy along with some flexibility, which they showed late in the day - but not too late.

That same form since Sollbauer arrived would have had us 9th on the table over 46 games. That's plenty to look forward to in my view especially with a few more additional players.

 

It's not lucky to play by the rules and to benefit from them when others, who signed up to the same rules, broke them.

If we'd have spent like idiots, gone into administration and been relegated, who here would be saying "Well that was unlucky! " Anyone?

Even without Wigan breaking the rules we were just a point off survival (just one less Mads mistake or minus Sollbauer's own goal at Leeds). We were also just 3 wins off 13th place. Hardly the horrific season many were claiming it was. Margins are so fine in this division over 46 games, yet supporters often just see black and white, good or bad.

 

Interestingly, amusingly and predictably....DWLC is back after a 7 month absence.
And there's me thinking you'd moved from East Dulwich to Edinburgh and forgotten about the ****-hole which is Barnsley.
"If those 3 (DS/CS/DT) reunite at Hearts I'll likely have more affection for that club than my own."

 

Hello moron.