Wigan fans View on the Appeal

The Wigan argument in full... https://thepieatnight.co.uk/twelve-reasons-why-the-twelve-point-deduction-should-be-overturned

 

Correct,
Also they in principle were agreeing to the points deduction as long as it didn’t relegate them .
That’s a poor appeal to me and a waste of much needed monies which the fans are frantically collecting .
If it were my club I’d be more concerned about how we survived rather than our Championship status and I/we can say that with experience.

 

The Barnsley argument:

1. Wigan went into administration
2. Administration carries a 12 point penalty
3. Wigan get - 12 points.

Seriously, what Wigan went through stinks but it should lead to criminal charges and an overhaul of the EFL process. Not bairning and moaning about technicalities regarding rules that were well known when the season began.

 

Agree entirely. I feel sorry for Wigan, and this should not be happening. But their owner put them into administration. If they win the appeal, they find themselves in exactly the same situation that the 12 point penalty was meant to deter from.

 

I’m no legal expert by any means but that does seem to indicate a strong case to me. They must have some confidence or they wouldn’t fork out £500k in their situation.
I’m genuinely worried about this appeal outcome....

 

The 12 reasons cited come down to a scatter gun approach. My understanding is that there are very limited grounds of appeal. The tribunal are not there to revamp EFL rules, but ensure they are correctly applied. The sub text that this Wigan fan does not want to consider is how they have run up big losses for such a small club. By buying players they could not sustainably afford, they have effectively been claiming an ongoing and unfair advantage for years. There's a whole can of worms here and not all of it will cast Wigan as the poor victim, so let's hope the panel stick to their remit.

 

Not how I read it
(Opinions eh)

 

My biggest worry is how appeals panels tend to show leniency. There was something in the Macclesfield appeal where they said the punishment "shouldn't relegate them". Then look at how CAS bent over for City, despite writing a damning assessment of the case.

 

"We are 100% in the right on principle. It is now up to the courts to do the right thing and remove that 12 point deduction from a football club that has suffered enough in the past few weeks"

Bowlex! Your owner is a crook. End of.

 

Thing is, if they had won their last game, or maybe the game against us, then there would be none of this wailing and gnashing of f**king teeth!!

 

If they aren’t relegated then what punishment in the Championship is a points deduction ?
Imo it should be automatic relegation and I hope after this our board find allies and push for automatic relegation with extra places from div1 if needed.
There’s no incentive for where you finish as in the prem outside the obvious promotion/relegation so a points deduction as long as it doesn’t relegate them and if they were to be promoted would stick two fingers up till they came back down with their millions .

 

Brexit means Brexit.

Administration means administration.

 

Exactly and some of their vile abuse against our club is a disgace.
We shouldn’t be taking it personally as it could have been a number of other clubs in our finishing position taking their place.
I know what Brum fans would be telling them what to do .
Reading the Blackburn forum there’s no sympathy

 

There are no certainties and I’m sure their QC will argue eloquently and passionately but if that is their case I would be amazed if they were successful. Off the top of my head:
1 It WAS an administration. If it was a liquidation they would have appointed a liquidator
2 I don’t think the reason for going into administration is relevant. The rules don’t ask for the state of mind of the owners, just whether they put the club into administration or not
3 The same answer as #2. It’s immaterial that no winding up order was made and again, that is liquidation not administration
4 The fit & proper person test is not relevant. If anything, if their owners are not fit & proper their position is more akin to Charlton’s and potentially even worse.
5 Same as #4. Irrelevant
6 the clubs voted to continue the season so what is the unforeseen event? You would have to show that responding to the event was outside their control and could not have been prevented or mitigated, but 90 other clubs managed to get through the season
7 It’s not force majeure just because you say it is
8 same point and not relevant
9 malicious intent? Really?
10 The Blackpool precedent is arguable but different enough not to be relevant
11 The betting scandal is rumour and again not relevant
12 It’s not a normal administration? Maybe it isn’t but the question is whether it is an administration
Don’t forget that for every QC who wins a case there’s at least one who loses. It’s not surprising that their QC has publicly said he has a strong case. What’s he supposed to say? I’ve no chance but maybe I’ll get lucky?

 

Reading through they have some interesting points but they are all circumstantial and in the main not relevant.

Fact is, the person in significant control of Wigan Athletic as a company, at that moment in time, chose to place the company into corporate administration. That is a 12 point deduction in the EFL rules, there no caveat to appeal apart from force majeure. Which in this case, there’s no valid argument. This is a case of their “owners” running out of cash flow and were either unwilling or couldn’t provide Cash funds to the extent of £10/£15m to fund the clubs deficit, hence they took the administration route, distancing them legally from creditors on liabilities that were about to become due, leaving administrators to clear up the mess.

It’s immoral by their former owners to put them into administration with no prior warning and, this I feel sympathy with Wigan Supporters, but it’s not illegal in the corporate world. Had the debt been secured, requiring personal guarantees from company directors it would be a different matter.

Wigan possibly were a well run club on the basis that owners/directors were funding the shortfall between their income and expenditure, between £10 to £15M a season, however their benefactor has bolted before the debts became due and legally distanced themselves before the debts were public knowledge. If the owners had rode it out a bit longer, they couldn’t have disappears like they have.


The EFL do not have the powers to control what happens on a corporate level, ie the sale of a company with the Football club as the held asset. The EFL can only control football related matters. If the Owner of a club doesn’t conform to EFL Regulations, sanctions are made against the club by way of penalties, fines, right up to being expelled from the league altogether. As what happened with Bury. Their fans weren’t at fault, it’s the rogue owners / former owners who have put them in this position, but they have to suffer the consequences.

 

Idiot

 

There's just nothing in that whatsoever if they go to the tribunal with that they’ll be laughed out of the building .
He stated he’s not a barrister etc he’d no need to it was blatantly obvious to everyone except the starry eyed Wigan fan clinging to any hope he can .
He’s arguing against facts and putting his twist on it is all .
He’s saying they didn’t go into administration but the so obviously did a judge would shut him down on that one straight away .
He’s saying they didn’t have a financial advantage but they did they were attracting and playing footballers they couldn’t afford without the owners debts putting clubs as us and Luton at a massive disadvantage .
Reading that makes me think we’ve nothing to fear it’ll be laughed at IF those are their defence which is no defence.
Even a biased committee can’t overturn on those grounds without the ridicule it would stir .
The only thing they could possibly overturn this judgement is on a sympathy and a tabloid meltdown in Wigan’s favour and ignoring us .
And if that were to happen just watch our owners go they’d have a field day . they wouldn’t have to sell a player again with the compensation we sue them for .

 

If there was "no financial advantage" to the administration then they should be coughing up 100p in the pound to settle all debts. As it stands, there is still a doubt that they can hit the 25p in the pound to avoid further sanctions.

 

Spot on. They currently stand in administration. Owing debts what will continue mounting. Managers left. Players will be allow to leave on a free shortly. Even if they maintain a championship place...a new owner will look at the debts and the championship wages they will after pay and probably do a u-turn. Especially when theirs no fans income till October.

 

I've said it before but it seems to me the target of Wigan's ire and litigation should be the EFL in failing in its duty of care to the club with regard to the "fit and proper persons" test rather than trying to overturn the straightforward application of the deduction rules.

Having said that I can see why they've gone with the hail mary appeal, because if successful it's an immediate resolution. A claim for damages against the EFL would take months if not years of complicated and expensive argument and doesn't immediately secure any benefit - there's no use in pursuing a judgment for £10m in damages if the club will go bust before it gets to court.