Felt reasonably confident until I read this

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Chef Tyke, Aug 3, 2020.

  1. Tyke_67

    Tyke_67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    14,969
    Likes Received:
    20,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But it isn't the EFL making the decision, it's an Independant Panel. The EFL have correctly applies their rules, it's just that Wigan don't want to abide by them and have appealed
     
  2. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,375
    Likes Received:
    4,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Italy
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Yes but surely there is a paradox here. The rules are 12 points deduction for going into administration. Clubs agree to abide by the rules of the EFL and that is just one of the rules. If a rule is retrospectively and arbitrarily overridden without agreement from all the clubs for whatever reason (other than Force Majeur -which incidentally in this specific instance is claimed to be a pandemic which would also have affected EVERY club in the league in equal measure) then where would it be written that a club would have to accept that change without the right to challenge it.

    In this case, I fail to see given the considerable financial implications for Barnsley F.C. who are the innocent party, why should they not challenge it. I also fail to see why BFC would have meekly signed up to abide by an independent panel decision. Even if they have, then would not legal action for compensation be possible even if they cannot challenge relegation,against the independent panel even if the EFL can argue THEY have not made that decision. Signing up to abide by the decision of a Independent panel without knowing the makeup or remit is foolish, signing up to accept a decision with no recourse to financial compensation for loss cause by to an unforeseen rule change is idiotic.

    EDIT: Vaguely remember covering 'Force Majeur' when I studied Contract Law (albeit on day release) for my ACII many many years ago, and unless the definition has changed there is no way on God's Earth that it can be applied to a single party in the case of the Pandemic. It must be the sole cause but in the case of Wigan, the 'rot' has already set in. Any two-bit lawyer can demonstrate this as it is self evident. For it not so be so, every club in the League would have been similarly affected to the point of administration. It is utter ******.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    WatfordRed, BBBFC, Connor and 2 others like this.
  3. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    9,562
    Likes Received:
    7,776
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It doesn’t
     
  4. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    9,562
    Likes Received:
    7,776
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Unfortunately the answer to that is simple, it is because the vast majority of clubs are ran at a loss, so it becomes the norm.
    We can see from Wigan fans comments that an owner putting into a club to balance is deemed acceptable, even we are guilty to an extent as a club how many people on here in the past have got enamoured because the current owners don’t put money in.
     
    Loko the Tyke and CarltonRed like this.
  5. Ste

    Steve Wood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    912
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    If Wigan win their appeal today, then every club in the Championship can clear their massive debts by going into administration over the next few months and claiming 'force majeure' due to covid-19. Their creditors don't get paid and they start afresh with a clean slate and no points deduction. It would set a very dangerous precedent imo.
     
  6. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    9,562
    Likes Received:
    7,776
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Thought EFL challenged the Panels decision over Birmingham and won?
     
  7. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,916
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    XenForo - Xenith Reds
    They did, but then elected to not punish Birmingham anyway
     
  8. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    10,487
    Likes Received:
    17,430
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    If you read the regs that's the position. The only scope to challenge the decision is for serious procedural irregularity under s.68 of the Arbitration Act 1996.
     
  9. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,766
    Likes Received:
    7,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    None of that is unknown or missed in my post.

    does anyone believe that the ‘independent’ panel have had no ‘guidance’ from the EFL?
     
    DannyWilsonLovechild likes this.
  10. wombwell-red

    wombwell-red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    3,611
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    According to a local journo there is no chance of that happening what so ever.
     
  11. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    10,487
    Likes Received:
    17,430
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    They did, but that was under a different dispute resolution procedure with a right of appeal.
     
    lk311 likes this.
  12. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    36,213
    Likes Received:
    30,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    All speculation.
     
    Donny-Red likes this.
  13. Tykeored

    Tykeored Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,302
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Yes I know. The efl did not however have any choice in the matter as your post intimated
     
  14. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,766
    Likes Received:
    7,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    That’s the opinion of a journalist. What I posted were the facts from the regulations.

    the internet eh?
     
  15. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,766
    Likes Received:
    7,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Read it again ;)
     
  16. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    36,213
    Likes Received:
    30,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Strange how nothing has been leaked with the Court being online via zoom.
     
  17. Micky Finn

    Micky Finn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    16,303
    Likes Received:
    13,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Light bender
    Location:
    It depends who's asking...
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It appears they've had considerably more guidance from Wigan!
     
  18. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    16,072
    Likes Received:
    11,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    So would I if it was us. Starting on -12 is just like writing off a season.
     
  19. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    36,213
    Likes Received:
    30,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think we've sat back a bit and thought everything would be o.k. The two statements from the club have mentioned taking action. However, we've been talking about the Championship next season with no reference to it being subject to the Wigan appeal. It feels like we have our head in the sand. Either that or Dane and co know something we don't and the club are keeping its cards close to their chest.

    It will be embarrassing if the exuberant celebrations after the Brentford win come back to bite us.
     
  20. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    11,860
    Likes Received:
    11,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Let's be clear - I am only surmising here what might be the case. But the independent appeal panel are hired hands - lawyers and other experts sourced by 'Sporting Resolutions'. If it were possible to sue them for their decisions then I think they would be wanting an indemnity clause from EFL. But if EFL were subject to liability for the IDP's decisions then I would think they would keep the decisions for which they might become liable in house. So I would be surprised if the contract between the clubs and the EFL does not contain a clause that any independent appeal panel decision must be accepted as binding. There is no mileage in suing EFL because their decision was to uphold their own disciplinary code (i.e. 12 point deduction). And let's not forget the clubs themselves voted to have these rules, including any appeal route.
     

Share This Page