The Brentford love-in

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Merde Tete, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,686
    Likes Received:
    19,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    They play good football on a stretched budget. They have assets in terms of players to meet any shortfalls due to excellent recruitment. They have taken a risk but it’s a balanced one. Investment in new stadium creates opportunity and ability to receive diversified income streams. We shouldn’t gamble to their level but do need to push the recruitment up a notch or two. It’s all about balance and very difficult to get it right
     
    Merde Tete and Redhelen like this.
  2. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,949
    Likes Received:
    8,931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    He’s not said that at all.

    What he’s saying is clubs shouldn’t be massively overspending.

    The proper way to get up is to be well run like Burnley & to not gamble the long term future of the club for a premier league push.
     
    TitusMagee likes this.
  3. Shy Talk

    Shy Talk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,054
    Likes Received:
    4,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tarn
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    As I mentioned elsewhere Dane has recently referred to redeveloping the West Stand, incorporating a bar, as a priority for the owners. Caveat is that first they need to own the land.
     
    Stephen Dawson and John Peachy like this.
  4. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But this was one of Wigan's argument. They had assets that would cover any shortfalls, but due to the Transfer Window being shut as Covid-19 had extended the season, they weren't in a position to take advantage of those assets.

    They're definitely not a Bournemouth in terms of spending beyond their means, but their two centre-backs (one of which played for us) are being paid upwards of £1.5 million a year in wages. Our top three earners aren't on that much, and Brentford's top earners aren't their CBs.

    The new stadium will allow them to reduce that 130% wage figure though for sure. I just don't really see them as 'plucky'. They're a top six Championship side and if they hadn't have made the playoffs with the investments they've made then I wouldn't have been surprised to see the manager out the door.
     
    Django likes this.
  5. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    14,466
    Likes Received:
    3,095
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Counting great crested newts
    Location:
    Hiding in a reed bed at the local RSPB nature rese
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Wrong - he dosen’t want clubs like Brentford or Bournemouth and presumably Burnley to be in the Premier.
    On that line of thinking I suppose he dosen’t want Barnsley in that league either.
    Total bonkers!!!
     
  6. Merde Tete

    Merde Tete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    17,235
    Likes Received:
    16,326
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Lincoln
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    When did I say that?!
     
    TitusMagee likes this.
  7. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,949
    Likes Received:
    8,931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    No if you read what he’s put he’s talking about clubs that have overspent.

    He’s talked about clubs like Brentford & Bournemouth with huge wage bills not ones like Burnley, Huddersfield & Blackpool that got there without risking the long term future of the club.
     
    Merde Tete likes this.
  8. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,949
    Likes Received:
    8,931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It is what it is, if some people would be happy for us to pay the wages Brentford are & racking the debts up like they are then fair enough but I’d be shitting myself if it was Barnsley when we only get 13,000 or so through the gates.

    They paid £5.5m for a 28 year old Pontus Jansson on allegedly £30,000 a week. That’s a huge contract for a club that gets 11,000ish through the gates.
     
    TitusMagee and anstonred like this.
  9. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    2,355
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Wonder what their P & L looks like. I understand that the owner is a fan who made money on the stock market. They have a spreadsheet and they hold out for top money when they sell and buy bargains like Pinnock. They are an exciting team and I’m sorry they didn’t make it. In truth though I only really care about us staying up and thriving next year.
     
    Redhelen and Stephen Dawson like this.
  10. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,949
    Likes Received:
    8,931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think the difference is everyone knows Fulham recklessly overspend & no one defends it but with Brentford we constantly hear them been made out to be some plucky underdog as if they’ve got a wage structure like ours & Luton’s
     
    TitusMagee, anstonred and Merde Tete like this.
  11. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,949
    Likes Received:
    8,931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The other thing is it’s reckless to put your squad on huge wages when you’ve only got small attendances as you can’t be reliant on getting huge transfer fees.

    A players only ever a bad tackle or something coming up on a medical from going from your biggest asset to your biggest liability. You’ve only got to look at Wigan with Robinson in January.

    Say Jansson starts ageing & declining in ability, Watkins suffers a bad injury that keeps him out a few months & Benrahma doesn’t get the transfer he wants & his performances go downhill you suddenly have 3 huge contracts on the books with no big fees been offered for them & you’re in a financial mess.

    Now that’s probably pushing it for all 3 to happen at once but that’s the massive gamble you take when you pay such huge wages.

    We’ve seen ourselves how quickly players can go downhill after injuries or just a loss of form. Remember us turning down about a million from Palace for Matt Done & then letting him leave on a free, supposedly turning down big fees for Thiam only for him to leave on a free. Colace didn’t get the move he wanted & ended up sulking & been a shadow of the player he was in his first two seasons with us.

    I just believe the club should be in a position whereby if it can’t get transfer fees for it’s players it can still afford to pay the wages without substantial losses.
     
  12. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    15,574
    Likes Received:
    19,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley
    On that basis, we're also a poorly run club.

    Its a very difficult balance isn't it? If we see a wide impact on the ability of clubs to sign players for considerable fees, we're absolute buggered and our business model is flawed.

    I don't think we've any players (maybe Woodrow aside) who would get a premier move at this moment. So as a result, we're highly reliant on fellow championship clubs buying a player or two while trying to preserve the rest of the squad (after natural wastage) to develop more til they are.

    But you're right, a quick run of "bad luck" can hugely shape your playing fortunes and future revenues. The season we effectively lost Butterfield, Drinkwater and Vaz Te in January for only a token fee (for Vaz Te) had us drop like a stone.

    Maybe even highlights more to try and build a prudent squad for today with a little development for tomorrow rather than have a full squad of kids, many of which you cant actually play.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
    Stephen Dawson and Jimmy viz like this.
  13. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    15,574
    Likes Received:
    19,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Thats the sad thing though isn't it, nobody criticises Fulham either. Just like Brighton weren't. Just like nobody is really paying attention at Readings plight. And I think its largely the fault of the media and TV. They don't care how indebted the competition teams are, they just want the best "product" and to hell with tomorrow.

    Maybe this is the start of a long long overdue correction... or media may have even more money to throw at the next TV deal and it continues to spiral out of control?

    Its like the worst housing market on steroids there ever was.
     
  14. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11,949
    Likes Received:
    8,931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But I don’t think we need to sell to survive or if we do we certainly don’t need to sell many or generate huge fees.

    We’ve probably got a very similar amount of TV money & match day revenue as Brentford but less than half or maybe even a third of the wages
     
  15. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,686
    Likes Received:
    19,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It’s why striking the balance is very difficult. Also in terms of fairness the Brentford recruitment model is much better than Wigan’s or ours. Selling 2 players this year will get the 50 million quid.
     
  16. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    15,574
    Likes Received:
    19,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley
    We'll not know this season figures for a good while, but we've got a massive squad. And our commercial revenue streams are very poor. I wouldn't be surprised if we're losing £1m-£2m before transfer fees per year (though its not easy to judge with the yoyoing of recent years)
     
    Stephen Dawson likes this.
  17. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,686
    Likes Received:
    19,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    That’s exactly the sort of thing we should go nowhere near.
     
  18. She

    Sheriff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,355
    Likes Received:
    6,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The thing they appear to be very good at is getting value for their sold players, allowing them to invest increasingly more in the replacements.

    Apparently, Ollie Watkins release clause has now hit £18m, from a previous figure of £10m, as a result of yesterday's game. That's a fair old chunk of money to reinvest in a system where they generally increase the value of their assets.

    It's this aspect of what they do well that I'd like to see us replicate with our own transfer policy. Get value from assets on the field, increase their value significantly, cash in on their inevitable sale, rinse and repeat.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53662774
     
  19. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It's what the owners are trying to do - it's just our fans remain fixated on this obsession that the owners only sell players to line their own pockets.

    We got over £5.5 million plus for Pinnock and Lindsay because their contracts were allowed to get down to the last 12 months - not ridiculously bad in the grand scheme of things. But the contract situation massively weakens your negotiating position and you can't hold out for the fee you want, just the fee someone is willing to pay, and without a bidding war that fee isn't driven up. There's the argument you refuse all bids and let the player leave for free a year later, but taking that argument aside, the policy of longer contracts and Championship football is deliberately designed to strength our ability to command top dollar should a signing come good.

    Of course Brentford are getting bigger fees. They're a top ten Championship side and clubs are having to buy their players out of their contracts. It's where we're hoping to get to, providing we scout the right players.
     
    John Peachy, Merde Tete and Jimmy viz like this.
  20. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    2,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Featherstone
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Didn’t need the words best scouting network to find Ollie Watkins. He was very sought after and a no brainier of a signing. Brentford just obviously offered the most wages probably. They will probably get 10 x what they paid now
     
    Merde Tete likes this.

Share This Page