Interesting tactical analysis of our systems under Struber

Agreed but my point is this that teams who can withstand our ball playing and possession but we fail to convert will always be in with a chance of picking us off .
Leeds other month a classic example .

 

Even the most organised teams will get undone if one player fails to do his job and I agree with you that Kilian exposed the defence for Newcastles first goal. The very aggressive roles the full backs are instructed to play, for me, add to the excitement of watching us play these days.
DS was too cavalier and in Cavare had someone who wasn't prepared to fulfill the role properly. With this system I would expect one of the two central midfielders to cover for the full back.

I agree with you re the triggers...difficult to understand. My take is that when the opposition execute a "play", thats the catalyst for us to execute the counter play. The players need to be extremely disciplined to do this. He's clearly programming them to act on instruction and not instinct in this regard to the point where it becomes instinct!

Interesting comparison to Danny's team where, as you point out. the centre backs were more "static" and they did play tighter together.

I think the big difference with GS is that he has given free rein to Jordan Williams to break from the back as and when the opportunity arises and I think hes been pretty impressive doing this. It's quite like what Chris Wilder does with his back 3. The attacking CB breaking into opposition territory helps us overload the attack. Of course, retaining that defensive shape as the CB does attack is crucial and that's why I think a strong CDM would be a real asset alongside Mowatt. I know you dont think Aapo can do that role. I think he could; and looking at Wolfe and Palmer, they look to have the potential to fill in there also - midfielders who can hold and cover.
Fascinating stuff.

 

This was in response to RRs earlier post. Sorry- didn't make that clear.

 

You are obviously quite right. That puts us into the area of financing our aspirations. If you have the cash, you can obviously do a lot more. If you do not have the cash, you have to spend it more cunningly. Goalscorers cost more than any other position, especially goalscorers who can play the Struber system. Now if Struber were not our coach and we were not playing such an intensive press, then we could play a different system, a system that does not rely quite so heavily for its effectiveness upon the press. Then we might be able to afford a better striker, because that player would not have to tick so many boxes. However, then we might conceded more goals as well. Let us not forget Stendel. His teams generally scored more goals. They also conceded more. When a club is having problems, they generally try to tighten up at the back, and Struber was no different, though he did it in a different way. Who knows what could happen if we changed the formula. My guess is that we are stuck with it as long as Struber stays in charge.

 

I didn’t mean an out and out goal scorer or anything near as I know we’d fleeceour coffers and it wouldn’t guarantee anything .
Our defence has tightened up massively since Struber especially since Sol and I wouldn’t change that tbh .
I’m not advocating going out and paying x amount for a finisher but the amount of chances created and not taken is a concern tbh.
We need to be scoring more goals from more players really I’m a bit disappointed at the free kick options ,Corners etc as well as open play .
Hopefully it comes good in early part of season and confidence then becomes a factor but the longer we don’t capitalise the more our young players confidence ebbs.

 

The thing is, if we do not understand the triggers, I am not really convinced that we understand the system. I include myself in that by the way, because I have no idea what the triggers are. The article suggested it is when the opposition goes backwards, but I am convinced there is more to it than that. Part of me would like to be at live games so that I can see what those away from the ball are doing. We see what the pressers are doing, but the press relies on more players than just the two (Brown and Chaplin), who are the initial pressers. The rest of the team have to mark any potential receiver of a pass, but again, there is more to it than that. Potential pass receivers are always moving, trying to find space to receive and make a quick pass. The team is trying to advance upon the man with the ball to reduce the space available for potential receivers to move into, because less space equals less time. However, not being able to watch live has reduced my opportunities to see what is going on, and before lockdown, the players were still learning the system. I find the current situation frustrating, because it prevents me from learning more.

I do not thing that is just Jordan Williams. I noticed Sollbauer in the Newcastle final third during open play as well. That is another frustration, because we do not see exactly how cover is arranged for those two, because we cannot look anywhere but where the camera is looking. It is all very interesting, but frustrating because we will not get to the bottom of things until we are allowed back in stadiums.

 

Personally, I am not sure whether Sollbauer has help because of his experience, or he has helped because he knows how the Struber System works. You see, I am convinced that we are better defensively because we have made the press work much more effectively. I think that it is the effective use of the press, rather than the recruitment of any one individual. Assuming for one moment that I am right, then the formula works because of the hard work of the two lads at the head of the press, and changing that combination changes the effectiveness of the press, and we concede more goals. Of course, I cannot prove that, no-one could, but it is why we must be careful when contemplating a change in that front two.

 

Sollbauer definitely made a difference in more than one way imo .
He’s not the best player in that position in the Championship or controversially at the club for that matter .
He has brought experience but more than that he has a calming influence of those around him .
There’s no doubt that Anderson has benefitted from him being there and giving instructions and The Williamses .
I also think Walton has benefitted and certainly drawn confidence from him and that’s taking nothing away from him on his excellent performances .
I think it’s the man rather than his position or experience that has helped the defence and as you say knowing the system .
The head of the press does improve our defence I agree in fact as you say the whole system works for defence and attack and up to the last third it’s very affective .
I don’t think we’ll struggle with this team and those tactics at all this season tbh but if we continue to not address our finishing and I don’t mean prolifically I think we’ll short change what we have by not doing so .

 

I liked Andersen from the moment I saw him. His problem was that he was young, he had moved to a new country and probably a new system. He was making mistakes, and they were costing us goals, but that is easier to sort out than it is to take a bad player and make him a good one. The change is remarkable. At times, his support players are 25 metres away from him, right and left. And yet he is still unflappable. Sollbauer undoubtedly understands the system, but as you say, he is by no means the best centre-back we have ever signed. His biggest effect, along with the break in proceedings for lock down, is that he allowed everyone to integrate and learn the new system. As you say, he was one of the keys to our survival.

Like you, I am hoping for better things this season. I would obviously like to see a new forward. In fact, has there ever been a time when we would have turned down another striker. However, in the footage I have seen, Frieser played on the left side of a front 3, so he may be the striker you seek. My own concerns are about defensive and attacking set-pieces. I just do not think that we have enough height, and that is particularly true against teams like Stoke City. We gave Cole a free header from a corner on Saturday. However, I am conscious of the fact that bring in Halme instead of Williams also changes the delicate balance of the team structure. I would be so much more confident if only I thoroughly understood Struber's System and its drivers.

 

ive started doing my own minority report on my shagging. I email it to my missus every Monday morning. I’ll start posting it on here if you like? It’s not very long.

 

"Chef Tyke began the evening with one up front. But due to a lack of mobility, this forced an early change as the two supporting lads ran out of gas very early on.

In the end he ran out of steam. Maybe his wife will try something different next time, instead of playing such a rigid system that causes a lack of flexibility"

 

Does she like it shorth and pithy?

Ooerrrr missus.

 

4-4-2 = Missionary

 

The game has moved on. You're stuck in the 1980s.

 

Now who is being bigoted and condescending? If you think that then you don't read people's responses

 

I think he wasn't being entirely serious

 

The article pointed this out that the midfielder's didn't apply the press correctly, one in particular was too high upfield allowing Leeds forward pass through midfield just before their goal. I guess it is very difficult for all players to remain disciplined and in correct positions for 90 minutes. Also, I guess that we were unlucky that the one time that one player was out of position, Leeds scored.

 

I think he WAS being entirely serious, that is the problem

 

I guess there are several triggers but we'll only get to see what they may be if we can watch a game in the flesh, as you suggest. Each player will be "programmed" to respond off the ball when a trigger triggers.

I do think Jordan W carries the ball more than Sollbauer into the opposition half. He appears to have ben given a freer role than either of the other CBs. He's also been effective in getting deep into the opposition half, enabling an incisive pass in attack. I'd have him practicing 25/30 yard shots as he gets the opportunity but he always looks to pass instead.

As Marlon points out, we need a regular goalscorer. You comment re the work rate of CC and JB is spot on; they work phenomenally hard but Jacob in particular needs to be scoring more. Again, all day every day we should have him practicing strikes on goal so that it becomes habitual.

Unlike you I do enjoy watching these lads play in this system. I love the fact that they don't give the opposition time to think and I also believe they are now playing with a sense of freedom; and that's because they have clarity in a way they didn't have previously.

Given your comment re the way we play, two questions:

1. If we continue to play 3412, what would your team be - using the current group?

2. If you could change to another system what would it be and who would you have in the team?

 

That’s correct but as I say were very vulnerable to being picked off whilst not taking some of our chances .
We had a lot of very good to excellent chances of scoring in that game to put it to bed .
I’m highlighting the Leeds match but compare with other games of missing excellent chances .
Luton , Wigan, Blackburn (although they missed excellent chances )and that’s when it becomes concerning imo .