Compulsory vaccinations

I'm not sure that 'The Great Reset' concept as laid out by Klaus Schwab of the World Economic Forum qualifies as a 'global elite conspiracy' because it is openly discussed by world leaders including Boris Johnson. If you haven't read it I would certainly recommend that you do because it is quite an eye-opener.

The lizard question is ridiculous and doesn't even warrant a response. I'm sure you would agree that people can have genuine concerns about the Government's Covid-19 response without being labelled as crazy 'conspiracy theorists'.

 

I haven’t thankfully but know a couple of folk who have and still are unfortunately

 

We clearly need a vaccine to help get back to normal. Take the England hospital deaths announced today it had 7 just for Barnsley and 5 of them were on Monday which is harrowing when you think of so many gone in a day. Pfizer vaccine looks like being given the green light next week which is great and with 10 million doses that means five million of our highest risk people can be sorted before the end of the year. I would urge pensioners and those with underlying health conditions to take it. I just wouldn't make it so if you pick not to take it you cannot do certain things.

 

Tsk, there you go listening to a clinical trials doctor. Where's your hyperbolic nonsense, out of context research and non-referenced sources? This simply won't do.

On a serious note there's some other likely important considerations which I mentioned (via credible sources, not 'my own work') earlier in this thread.

Edit: Nobody is advocating taking a vaccine that is clearly unsafe. There's a discussion to be had about who exactly needs to take and and why. But the hyperbolic nonsense on here peddled by the same usual suspects needs to be put to bed. With a bit of luck it might never be needed. IIRC they developed the vaccine for SARS(?) but it was largely redundant in the end. Only time will tell.

 

Well said.

 

Did any of those vaccines address a virus causing a World Wide Pandemic resulting in millions of Deaths with the potential to mutate over time into something far more deadly? Desperate times call for desperate measures - not that for one minute do I endorse mandatory vaccinations. It is true however many resources you throw at developing a vaccine only time can determine long term effects. That said in mitigation Covid 19 is similar to many existing Covid viruses one of the reasons they have produced the vaccine in such a short timeframe (as well as the fact that never before has such a World wide effort been made and financed to do so-
It is your choice as an individual to make . It is also correct that people should aware of the potential risks - all vaccination carries an element of risk.
But like the campaign against MMR from people who were spooked by fake news alleging links to autism a few years ago which have caused a spike in Measles amongst children who were as, a result left unprotected, there is a danger that some people who are almost evangelical in broadcasting the dangers (most long term unknown) of the Covid vaccines, which for some particularly the most vulnerable who on balance should take the vaccine, may put them off.
Like anything in this life, sometimes you have to drop the cynicism (however healthy it is in normal circumstances) and have a little faith. As the saying goes you could walk under a bus tomorrow (or at least you could if you can find one since routes, particularly in rural areas, have been cut to the bone!)

 

Jees, sad times - that's twice I agreed with you in two posts!

(Although I think im on your ignore list?!)

 

I've said several times that if I was at risk I'd take the vaccine, but as someone who is young and healthy I'd prefer not to. Please don't compare me to the MMR/autism mentalists, that's clearly not at all analogous to my position.

 

I did not think of you when I said " some people" when referring to the evangelical naysayers. Apologies if you thought I was doing so. As I said , it is, or should be, down to individual choice.

However, I do stand by my OPINION (that got me into hot water with a couple on here who resorted to personal abuse not grasping what I said re hypotheticals) that if the human race was under threat of eradication from a 99% virulent and lethal virus and a vaccine was found, then I would consider that as a green light to enforce vaccination. AGAIN, That is only my opinion and clearly does not apply to the current situation regarding Covid which is not deadly in the overwhelming majority of cases.

 

Fair enough, apologies for misinterpreting it as having a dig at me.

 

The race to get a Covid-19 vaccine to market is to make money. That is all. There is nothing else to it. They do not care about saving your life. In the slightest. Multinational pharmaceuticals are about making money. They pay politicians £millions to be on their boards of directors, and pay £millions to lobbyists, so government policy helps them make money.

If you think they care, if you think they're doing this to help people, why don't the drugs that help save lives go to every country rather than just the countries who can afford to pay them a lot of money? Why don't they go to every person within countries who require the drugs rather than just those fortunate enough to be able to pay for them?

If you have AIDS in the UK, the drugs available will mean you'll probably die of something else. AIDS isn't that big a problem in the UK. AIDS is a huge problem in Africa. Do Africa get these drugs? Will they get the Covid vaccine? Of course not. It's not about the intention "to save lives and re-instate the status quo" it's about making money. If there could be an epidemic every two years pharmaceutical companies would be in hog heaven.

If it was about 'saving lives' why don't the various pharmaceutical companies pool their resources, share knowledge, work for a common good, why are they patenting every single innovation they make and denying anyone else the use of that? Come on, this really isn't difficult to work out.

There is so much money to be made from this, from vaccines and testing kits, £billions and £billions, do you honestly think they're not influencing government policy? Not attempting to induce fear and panic in a population who are now ready to accept compulsory vaccination with a formula that will skip protocols that have taken years to refine, many of which are a direct result of the actions of the Third Reich? The conspiracy theory isn't that this is happening, it can be factually proven in hundreds of real life examples. The conspiracy theorists aren't those that recognise this, the conspiracy theory is that it's not happening. It's the con that you have repeated that it's for the good of us all.

If you want to prop up this capital agenda with your naive arguments, and there's a few others on here doing the same (one with the kind of pompous, self-righteous, smugness that makes you puke, despite him being a blithering idiot) then carry on. You're viewed with the same contempt as those that are making £millions from it. You're helping this lie perpetuate, you're trying to influence other people that this is all good, and that's just as bad. But at least I understand why those who are making money from it are doing it. I'm totally against it, but I can understand their motivation. Money and wealth is a great motivator. But you're getting nothing from it and yet you're still doing their bidding. They'd inject you with cyanide if it made them money and they knew there'd be no repercussions and you're cheering them on.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-of-shares-on-day-covid-vaccine-was-announced

Go on, shout and swear at me like you do to everyone on here who argues against you. But beneath that rage, if you thought about it... well, let's see if you can think.

 

"You either have it or you don't"

So if a company said we've made a vaccine, it's been tested for 3 hours and nobody died. Would you have it? No? Why not? Because you realise that a rigorous long term implication study hasn't been done.

 

We wait until the protocols that are in place, refined over decades, that are in law, deem that it is safe. Like we do for every other drug and vaccine on the market. We're not making the judgement ourselves, we haven't the qualifications, we're asking that it is subject to the same rigorous testing that every other pharmaceutical is subject to. Many to treat diseases far, far more deadly than Covid-19. Wouldn't you agree that's a very responsible position to take?

 

Of course.

But the main reason that plenty of folk aren't that keen on it is that it hasn't been tested/trialled long enough to make them confident or want to take it. What happens if said scientisrs deem that it's safe to take on January 1st 2021?

I was just asking the question that's all about when those people would be happy to take it that's all.

Am I right in thinking that you've had it though Jay, so it probably doesn't apply to you either way? Or was it that you thought you had it but hasn't been tested - can't remember.

 

Obviously that's a huge extreme and you know it is. I wasn't suggesting at all that if Dave from Monk Bretton said he'd sorted a vaccine on the back of a *** packet that I'd be straight down with my sleeve rolled up.

I was just interested in how much time would have to pass for you to be confident to take it.

 

I know it was extreme that was my point. I wasn't talking about Dave from monk bretton ( he's useless at vaccines) but a proper company like the ones developing these vaccines. If they said after a few hours testing that it's safe nobody would believe them and rightly so. Why do we suddenly have to put blind faith in the results of a trial that has only had 3 months of phase 3 trials instead of the 2 years that the company itself stated was the expected end date of those trials?

The phase 3 trial was estimated by the authorities to last until December 2022 which is 29 months after phase 3 started. Instead it's been judged as successful after 3 months and just 8 confirmed covid cases following the vaccine (with one being a serious case).

From Pfizer's own website "To date, the Data Monitoring Committee for the study has not reported any serious safety concerns related to the vaccine".
To date? So they accept that there may be serious safety concerns but they just haven't found them TO DATE. Isn't this exactly what my point is (and many other people's) that they do not yet know the long term effects,l.

3.8% of people across the board suffer from fatigue and 2% from headaches at a grade 3 level which is severe but with these numbers increasing in younger people. So the less likely you are to become ill from covid the more likely you are to suffer side effects of this vaccine.


My point is that yes a few hours is ridiculous but why is 3 months into a 29 month phase 3 trial any less ridiculous just because they say it is?

 

When I had an Influenza type disease, fortunately I didn't have breathing problems, but I had an awful week, Covid-19 tests weren't available to me. It's possible I had what we have traditionally called flu, rather than Covid-19, but there weren't any strains that were prevalent at the time. By far the most common pathogen at the time was the coronavirus that causes Covid-19. I also had symptoms that are synonymous with Covid-19, but not with influenza, but I still can't say that, beyond the realms of possibility, it wasn't influenza. But I'm more than 99% certain I had Covid-19 and I think it would stand up in court.

Those developing the vaccine (the media arm of the company at any rate) will tell you at the drop of a hat that it's safe. (Our sales team offer our clients the world and I'm constantly trying to reign them in). If it is, it goes to market, lots of money is made. The protocols we have in place take it out of the hands of the scientists who have developed it, who have a vested interest in it, even if that vested interest is just satisfaction for doing something brilliant, and put it in the hands of people who can be dispassionate about it and can really judge the safety.

I work at a relatively small company. One of my roles, still my official role, despite the fact that it is now the thing I do the least, but it pays less , is that of Quality Assurance Manager. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet (or maybe just a little), I'm good at it, I made my way up through the company because I'm good at it, because I'm very methodical and can find errors in our systems and explain them well (and I don't mind p1ssing off the people who I have to tell it's *****) but I do not QA the things I design, which is the thing I do the most these days. Those that QA my stuff can't usually find errors, because I'm good at checking it myself (ego, ego, ego), but they do sometimes. I don't fk*cing like it when they find something. I don't allow that to come out, because I know it's a flaw in my character, I accept it, as much as I'm able, in good grace. But what it does do, is illustrate why I shouldn't QA my own stuff. For a start I'm too close to it, I can't check for something I haven't thought of that someone else might. And I have a huge professional pride in what I do, I work stupid hours, I put a lot into it, I don't want it to be wrong, which is why I need someone else to QA it. And as much as I don't like being told there's an error, I make sure people scrutinise what I do (I teach people how to find my errors, even though I hate my errors being highlighted), as I know, as much as it gets to me, my ego isn't nearly as important as the product being right. Which is exactly why the Covid-19 vaccine has to go through the proper protocols. That scientists are claiming it's safe doesn't make it so, even if they do that with the best intentions.

 

This ^^^^^^

Pretty sure most will nip down. When next summer comes. to go on their foreign jollies. If a condition of entering the country. Everyone to their own. But I’ll be up for it. Owts better than waiting several yrs. by which time I may not be around. I’d rather take the risk of the vaccine. See and hug my family. ( especially the grandkids) rather than put up with all this doubt. 1st in the queue.

I am still working. Seeing folk every day. Putting myself at risk. In an environment that’s not friendly to all the guidance. Doing as best. For what. ?

Folk should Either have the vaccine or not. Individual choice. It Will not be compulsory. Will be fought through the courts if tried. By then the Covid hopefully dying out.

Don’t need qualifications for common sense. Pretty sure bojo will be highly qualified. Still a nob.
Follow the science when it suits springs to mind.

We are in a pandemic. Extreme measures in extreme circumstances. I too worry that companies are in a race to be first to go to market. Billions in investment. But I would hope the WHO and other monitors have gathered all the evidence. To prevent false claims.

 

Lots of people desperate for a vaccine but less desperate to sort out their diets & lack of exercise - both vital in fighting respiratory illness.