Compulsory vaccinations

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tyketical Masterstroke, Nov 4, 2020.

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  1. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    Except one restricts your liberty.
     
    Hooky feller, Nov 18, 2020
    #361
  2. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    dreamboy3000, Nov 18, 2020
    #362
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  3. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    You hugely misjudge people with integrity. I don't mean this to be confrontational, I respect your opinion, but you're misjudging me by light years, and I'm not alone. It's very disrespectful and I don't think you should. I have values, as do many, they're worth something, and they're fighting for your health, wealth and well-being right now. Don't **** on them.
     
    Jay, Nov 19, 2020
    #363
  4. DEETEE

    DEETEE Well-Known Member

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    The risk while you are at work is minimal unless you work in either a care home or a hospital or spending time inside someones abode.

    As for following the science when it suits..

    Thats what the Government and their advisors have been doing for months.

    What type of qualification and background experiemce do you think bojo handycock etc have with medical matters?
     
    DEETEE, Nov 19, 2020
    #364
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  5. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Jay and SuperTyke both make valid points - and I find myself nodding in agreement to both posts.

    But you've still not said when you would be comfortable taking a vaccine - which was my initial and only question.

    I was just keen to find out when people who are against it would be comfortable taking it - and whether there would have been an arbitrary point in a number of years time. SuperTyke alluded to the 2 years following phase 3 testing - which maybe was his answer, and Jay just said how fcking brilliant he was at everything.

    I presume you'd never wish to take it as the long term affects would be completely unknown?
     
    Fonzie, Nov 19, 2020
    #365
  6. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    Where’s that come from Jay. sorry if it appeared that way. I sometimes add comments in the same post to point out other points being raised. Wasn’t aimed at you personally My meaning on that particular statement was aimed at the board. Reference to A few on here that were questioning each other’s qualifications. My point being folk don’t need qualifications to require common sense. ( having qualifications doesn’t mean folk are superior In intelligence, it only means they may be an expert in that subject.) I treat everyone with integrity. Unless their integrity is at question. Then I’ll question em about it.
    Lots of folk assume having a lot of knowledge = intelligence. Believe me. I’ve been around long enough to know the difference.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
    Hooky feller, Nov 19, 2020
    #366
  7. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about myself. You call it minimum if you want. Colleagues going down wit covid. Isolating cos they’ve been in contact. lack of ppe. Work involves close proximity to other workers covering Sheffield Barnsley Chesterfied areas. ( well less than 2 mts on occasion. different ones daily) Being made to travel to compulsory training. ( to be able to continue my role. On legal grounds. The certifications were given a 6 month extension once that ran out its back to the classroom so to speak.) And meeting up with folk from all over the county. Key worker. Amber worker. And please don’t try lecturing me on the H&S side. It’s best endeavours in my work. I am having to challenge daily the practicalities.

    They’ve followed the science. Not used any common sense or have you not noticed. The wearing of masks. Care homes. do I need to go on. They are idiots of the highest order. Those common sense features now at the forefront. Lockdown later than the scientists were recommending. Only done after Starmer criticised him.

    Boris is a nob. Of that I have no doubt. Completely out of his depth. Fact. His own backbenchers know that.

    Caught a snippet on the news this morning. The scientists. NEGLECTED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE CONSEQUENCES OF EFFECTS ON CARE HOMES.
    I WOULD AS PM . ( by the way I am PM. Those who recognise me know what I mean :)) HAVE MADE IT A PRIORITY.
    Told thi. Boris is a nob. Fact. Some of SAGE n’all given the latest. Nobs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
    Hooky feller, Nov 19, 2020
    #367
  8. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    It was late and I was tired, apologies mate
     
    Jay, Nov 19, 2020
    #368
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  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Think you missed the point. I said how flawed I am with regard to judging my own work. As are most people, which is why we have regulatory bodies. When it's deemed safe using the standard protocols of the regulatory bodies that assess new vaccines I'd take it. Pfizer telling us it's safe isn't worth a damn.
     
    Jay, Nov 19, 2020
    #369
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  10. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.
     
    Fonzie, Nov 19, 2020
    #370
  11. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

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    Extremely Northern, Nov 19, 2020
    #371
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  12. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    I need to remember to use folk and not you in some of my comments. Can look personal when in fact the opposite in most cases. I certainly don’t like singling people out unnecessarily. ( nudge an exception as I don’t trust his integrity and class him as a wum of the highest order.)
    Every day is a schoolday mate. I always try to remember I’m on social media and not round the table where things show the proper light. And take that into account when people respond. A lot throw a hissy fit ( me included at times. ST winds me up he’s so pedantic Having taken the written word literally. Not in context and I do really like the guy and would have a drink with him anytime but god it’d be hard work :) )
    Take care stay safe as is practicable. Mate.
     
    Hooky feller, Nov 19, 2020
    #372
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  13. Sim

    Simon De Montforte Well-Known Member

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    They can't know the long term effects of the vaccine until there's been a long term. How long was Thalidomide tested before it went on the market? Also, how do they work out that its 94% successful against preventing contracting the disease? Did these 20,000 volunteers or whatever get injected with the virus after being vaccinated? I think for the over 65s it's probably worth the gamble but if I was a young un I'd be giving it a miss for a number of years.
     
    Simon De Montforte, Nov 19, 2020
    #373
  14. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

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    Extremely Northern, Nov 19, 2020
    #374
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  15. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    No easy answers to this whole issue but ultimately what may force the issue is quality of life

    I dont know about everyone else but I dont want to spend any longer than I have to under the rules of the last 8 or 9 months.

    The majority of the population want to protect their older relatives so a return to the normal of last year isnt going to happen without a working vaccine -

    Some on here have suggested the virus will burn itself out in 2 years - Im not so sure, that would probably be true if we had carried on as normal and taken the hit in deaths - most of us would have had it in that time and we would have a significant death toll for the older or those with other health conditions. but because of the way we are trying to manage the peak infections I think this will last longer than the flue pandemics in the 20th Century

    . I dont want to spend the next 4 years living like this. Id probably survive Covid if I got it but If a working vaccine is found and no significant side effects are found in trials I would be prepared to risk it. I think the benefits outweigh the risks if gets some quality of life back

    To my Laymans viewpoint a one shot vaccine well 2 shots are unlikely to lead to problems that dont show for several years

    I might be wrong of course and find that Cancer rates go through the roof in 5 years time, but I think the chances are good that wont happen.

    Balance that against the certaintly of living under restrictions for the next 3 or 4 years. The fact that my Parents are both well into their '80s and I have seen them twice since March and there is a good chance they wont still be here in 4 years time I want to be able to see them regularly again whilst they are still here. I think the benefits far outweigh the risks

    As to @Jay 's comment about the drug companies only being in if for the money - well of course they are so are car companies and plane companies or almost every other company. but unsafe products are bad for the company long term. No drugs company can afford to release an unsafe product - if it tuns out that for example the pfizer vaccine is actually harmful that will kill the company.

    In the automotive electronic industry the people who work in quality control have power to stop any product they dont think passes their criteria for safety. I briefly had some involvement in medical electronics some time ago and that was far more stringent as everyone is terrified of being sued - and the people who work in QA tend to be more Jobsworth types than average. I would be surprised if in the pharmaceutical industry wasn't even more paranoid.
     
    Farnham_Red, Nov 19, 2020
    #375
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  16. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    For the pfizer trial they took 43,000 volunteers gave half the vaccine and half a placebo the numbers catching covid in the vaccinated group were 20 times less than the numbers catching it in the placebo group. Also it seems that if you do get covid after the vaccine its less severe - though there isnt enough data with only 8 cases to be certain of that.

    From their press release
    • Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group
    More info can be found here
    https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-r...ntech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine
     
    Farnham_Red, Nov 19, 2020
    #376
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  17. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    Agree with all of this.

    Another couple of thoughts on the idea of the drug companies making money.
    1) While some will go to execs, some will also go to further research that will improve treatments for various illnesses.
    2) If they provide a working vaccine, then whatever money they make is a damn sight better value for money than what we're getting from Dido and chums.
     
    leythtyke, Nov 19, 2020
    #377
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  18. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    dreamboy3000, Nov 19, 2020
    #378
  19. casual tyke

    casual tyke Active Member

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    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-gears-up-anti-vax-battle/

    Irrespective of whether the vaccine is made mandatory, the powers that be are certainly intent on clamping down on anyone who dares to express valid concerns about the vaccines. It looks as though the days of 'freedom of speech' are well and truly behind us.
     
    casual tyke, Nov 20, 2020
    #379
  20. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    dreamboy3000, Nov 20, 2020
    #380
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