Just to be clear, I'm not criticising people for taking the knee or clapping for NHS workers. I do understand your argument. I just think there's a better way. A much better way. The route we take isn't wrong, it's just not the best. The optimum route beats it hands down.
As the dad of grown ups, I’d say they live in a far less racist world than we grew up in, and having some teenage nephews and nieces, I’d say they live in a world that is almost colour / gender blind. I strongly believe my real grandkids are growing up in a much better version of the future than your imaginary ones.
They're living in a much better version of reality then I did. I still don't think it's gone away. It would be nice to think it has and I'm glad you do, but I think you're still a long way out. I'm assuming you're white, although I don't know, but I think the black contemporaries of your white nephews and nieces would be a better judge of the reality rather than your source of information.
Can't have the team you love being tainted by that anti racism rubbish can we? All those wishy washy, pinko, bearded commies doing namby pamby solidarity stuff with the minorities? Disgusting.
I do have a mixed race nephew, but he’s older than my kids. His daughter doesn’t live with the same levels of racism that my black mates did. it’s not perfect, but it is improving.
I see why South Africa are taking the stance they are. There are better ways to deal with racism than constantly kneeling before play. Less is more as well. We respect our armed forces but if we started to have a minutes silence before every game instead of just in November that too would lose meaning. I think BLM has been hijacked too by the PC brigade with their liberal wokeness.
Last time I took my wife to a Barnsley game was around 2013 and there was some bloke stood up complaining about Marlon Harewood being a 'useless blackie'. She hasn't been back since.
By the standards of recent discussions on this Board, this hasn’t been bad. Feels like someone’s missing though! I suppose it’s for each individual/team to make their own decision. The key is to have that view respected and not lambasted. Personally, I’d like to see a bit less ‘awareness’ at football matches. That would include taking the knee, a minutes silence on the nearest Saturday to Remembrance Day, no National Anthems and no minutes silence/applause for dignitaries/ footballers unless they were connected to the Club. All of the above might well be worthy to some individuals (some of them are to me) but it’s the opprobrium that comes out if someone dares not to conform that I struggle with.
I hope so too Helen. However, unfortunately it is instilled into a great number of people at the moment and sadly they will have children in years to come, so they will have their racist tendencies ingrained in them. It will take a lot to fully eradicate this problem 100% from society, sadly
My view for what it’s worth. it’s a once a season thing. As we commemorate Remembrance Day. Other groups are moving away from doing it at every single event. (Which I believes devalues it.) Done out of habit rather than the thought behind it. The point has been made. An appropriate regular event was clapping for nurses and doctors. Why did that stop.? Do we forget what they do. Absolutely not. But a monthly event means we do not forget what they are doing and the sacrifices they make whilst ever we get control of the situation. Is it happening.? No. Do they think we’ve forgot about em.? No. How often do people on here take the knee. On any occasion. This is not a them and us discussion as some want to make out. It’s just 2 sets of opinions. As lil quite rightly says. He choses to take one side of the argument but has no or little issues with the other.
Was just about to put the same. Anyone who utters the phrase "PC brigade" immediately loses all credibility. To double it up with "liberal wokeness" is even worse.
A couple of years back we clapped at Oakwell for a freedom fighter killed in Syria. I was against it because my attitude was if he wants to get blown up that's his prerogative. I was all for remaining seated but my mate dragged me by the arm and said, "don't be a knob". I got up and just stood.
I think that's fair comment to a large degree, But taking the knee is having an effect and its visible even on this message board. There are numerous white people who have expressed discomfort, and not for the reasons that its not making enough positive contribution or that its just symbolism. It is symbolism of course, but if it empowers black people and gives them hope to challenge the numerous status quos, while making white people uncomfortable, then it should continue for as long as they want to do it. You have to consider the symbolism and reaction if it was stopped. How would black people feel? How would black sportspeople feel? How would racists and white supremacists feel? It's the likely answers to those 3 questions that make me believe it should continue until it's replaced. Picking up on the national anthem. There have been debates before about whether all players should sing their anthem. And you sometimes have people who put their hand on or across their chest while its played (though increasingly less nowadays). If players want to highlight their passion for their nation, they absolutely can. if players want to highlight a fight for equality, I see no reason for them not to do that either.