New Tier System

It’s quite clear listening to Starmer and also the actions of the Welsh Government that the Labour Party support even stricter and more draconian lockdowns than those being undertaken.

They are no longer the Party of the worker and for that reason I am out.

 

There’s always Lawrence Fox.

I’m sure he’ll look after ‘the workers’.

 

In this situation though abstaining is basically voting for it, because by doing so you know it will pass.

 

Nah mate, I’ll leave the support of the right wingers to the ones like you who’ve cheered in the Tories lockdown.

 

Well it's not if 191 or so tories voted it down (which seems very unlikely). You can't criticise them for abstaining and then criticise them for voting for it by default.

Frankly, I don't know how I feel about it yet. But I can understand why they've come to this conclusion given the constant lies, misdirection, incompetence and corruptness of the governing party.

 

Where did I do that?

 

http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/threads/economic-impact.290344/page-2#post-2455456

Don’t worry, it’s common for your memory to decline a bit when you’re getting on in years.

 

I’m not sure what you believe you read there, but nowhere will you find me explicitly posting that this government have handled this well.

And me mocking someone for using the term ‘police state’ doesn’t imply otherwise.

 

Actually that's the very essence of my criticism. Are they voting for it but scared to admit it politically?
It scared to vote against it politically?
Either way, I have very little idea what Labours position actually is.

 

That's exactly what they're doing. They're voting for it but hiding and not wanting to take responsibility for it. They know that it will be voted in unopposed because they refuse to oppose it but they're being sneaky and also making sure they are not on record as voting for it. It absolutely stinks.

Any mp abstaining from a vote which they are elected by the public and employed to make decisions on should lose a month's pay minimum. Not just now but in any situation. It is a disgrace that they are essentially allowed to just refuse to do their job yet still get paid.

 

Because they're paid to make decisions. Abstaining is refusing to make a decision.

 

I saw something about this months and months ago. I've no idea how true it is but I take vitamin D anyway as it's including in my cod liver oil I take for my painful knees. Will is taking it now too as a precaution and it's always a good idea over winter anyway so the only possible 'loss' is a few quid a month.

 

They have made a decision though, Not to vote is their decision.

 

I'm sure the very pro tory media will paint it exactly as that.

But if you listened to Starmers statement following DePfeffel, he went through point by point (5 in total) why he felt they had to abstain. He disagrees with the way the government are doing lockdowns, he disagrees with the contract awards, the shambles of a tracing system, the lack of support in areas in tier 2 and above and he went into a lot of detail on that in particular. If you didn't see his full statement, I'd suggest you find it online.

There is obviously politics involved. but if you consider his options. He votes with the tory rebels and the tiered approach is blocked meaning from tomorrow, anybody can do what they like. In the run up to Christmas, that feels a really shaky thing to do and I'd suspect they would have to try and sit and bring in something that was of lesser restriction very swiftly.

If he votes for it, it goes through easily and the tory rebellion is diminished. Plus, he's painted as advocating tory position and everything they are doing.

I'm not sure I'd be happy with either position to be honest. As opposition, against a huge majority, you don't get to shape the debate or the legislation much at all, so you're always in a reactive position.

Having thought about it a while, and looking at the flipsides, I think he's probably got it right in abstaining, but it will also flag up the labour rebels and the media will likely show that more and spend more time discussing it than the much larger tory rebellion.

I think this vote might be quite close. Very unusual that DePfeffel has done a crossbench zoom call. That suggests he's worried a significant labour rebellion may make this a tight vote.

 

A decision not to make a decision is a cop out in my opinion.

When you are paid a lot of money to make important decisions on behalf of people who elected you to represent them and your answer is 'i refuse to say yes or no' then that's pathetic.

 

I do agree, it's definitely a cop out.

 

Reported that dePfeffel was stood at the lobbies "begging" tories to vote with the government.

His so called political capital is evaporating at pace.