Just having a debate

It's taken you 9 years on here to figure that out, mate?

 

I'll be very, very surprised if you don't know it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...?wprov=sfla1

Although I really don't believe it applies to you regarding this. I have, however, felt like quoting it a hundred thousand times in the past 9 months.

 

You and me too mate. I'm in the same camp as you

 

Every single game? Like Jay says how long do they want it to go on? The worlds got the message, move on and crack on with the football.

 

Niemoller, was a conservative in pre-War Germany who was initially attracted to Nazi ideals but having seen the way that they systematically targeted minority groups he renounced these beliefs:

... the people who were put in the camps then were Communists. Who cared about them? We knew it, it was printed in the newspapers. Who raised their voice, maybe the Confessing Church? We thought: Communists, those opponents of religion, those enemies of Christians—"should I be my brother's keeper?"

Then they got rid of the sick, the so-called incurables. I remember a conversation I had with a person who claimed to be a Christian. He said: Perhaps it's right, these incurably sick people just cost the state money, they are just a burden to themselves and to others. Isn't it best for all concerned if they are taken out of the middle [of society]? Only then did the church as such take note.

Then we started talking, until our voices were again silenced in public. Can we say, we aren't guilty/responsible?

The persecution of the Jews, the way we treated the occupied countries, or the things in Greece, in Poland, in Czechoslovakia or in Holland, that were written in the newspapers. … I believe, we Confessing-Church-Christians have every reason to say: mea culpa, mea culpa! We can talk ourselves out of it with the excuse that it would have cost me my head if I had spoken out.

We preferred to keep silent. We are certainly not without guilt/fault, and I ask myself again and again, what would have happened, if in the year 1933 or 1934—there must have been a possibility—14,000 Protestant pastors and all Protestant communities in Germany had defended the truth until their deaths? If we had said back then, it is not right when Hermann Göring simply puts 100,000 Communists in the concentration camps, in order to let them die. I can imagine that perhaps 30,000 to 40,000 Protestant Christians would have had their heads cut off, but I can also imagine that we would have rescued 30–40,000 million [sic] people, because that is what it is costing us now.

It may be a minority who are affected but where do we draw the line? As I alluded to earlier taking the knee is a gesture but it is a gesture of solidarity with a minority who are suffering racial injustice.

 

Edit:

Can't be bothered.

Have a good night.

 

Having watched the Ferdinand documentary last week I'd beg to differ. Especially when you saw some of the responses on Twitter.

 

Download a copy of First They Came by Pastor Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

Its less than 10 seconds, practically the same as doing their bootlace up!

 

Of course you're entitled to air your views. But so are people who disagree with you. Freedom of speech is not the same as being able to say what you like without receiving criticism if someone holds an alternative viewpoint.
As for people not knowing you, other than your brother who posts on here, that's probably true. But not knowing someone personally doesn't mean you can't express views on that individual. I personally don't know Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, Nigel Farage & Jacob Rees Mogg (for example), but I don't like them and don't need anyone else's permission to criticise them if I want to.

 

But its all over the news and in every sport, especially the NFL.

 

Good!

 

I didn't call you a racist.

Like I said, a shame. But we live and we learn. And this year has opened my eyes wider than ever.

 

If the world had 'got the message', there wouldn't have been booing, the first time people were allowed back in stadiums.

Its literally 5 seconds!

You're proving the point as to why it's still necessary.

 

Hasn't 'taking the knee' been done to death on this board now? Many have expressed views about it and very few have racist undertones to their comments. One can be against kneeling before every game without being racist. There's no mutual exclusivity. The fact that some Millwall fans booed though obviously shows lack of respect, intolerance and, from some, a racist mentality. As Jay has implied however above all protests have a longevity to them. Kneeling before a game is a form of protest just as much as a show of solidarity but the greater question for me would be what happens next? What change occurs now within society and football? If there is still racism after taking the knee (which there is) then should some other form of protest or action be contemplated? Has taking the knee effectively run it's course as an effective action?
I hope I've explained myself ok there!

 

Do the opposite of whatever Millwall do and you can't go far wrong.

 

Not really, no .

I should have learned from that stupid exchange of views a while back about women in sport. I got so much vitriol thrown at me for that and was called a misogynist by at least one contributor. Me, a misogynist!! (dictionary definition: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women).

If only they knew.....

 

I get the opinion that it's run it's cause a little, I don't agree with it per say, but I can understand it. There needs to be a next step, I agree, the Millwall fans proved that. Their reaction, and the opinions on their forum demonstrate a clear racist undertone.

I don't understand the opinion though that it's an inconvenience. Nobody else is being asked to join in, you don't even have to watch them do it (and with ifollow coverage, you'll probably miss it anyway). I mentioned above about someone on Tykes mad moaning about rainbow laces. Why would anyone get upset about that? I just don't get it. I find it incomprehensible that anyone can think that such a small gesture to show support and solidarity for something, would inconvenience them in anyway. And I think that's why it keeps being brought up. There shouldn't be multiple opinions on subjects of equality, and the fact that there is, is always going to bring up further discussion.

 

I assume you'd also support someone's right to boo the minute silence for Remembrance day? No politics in football and all that.

 

Let me back-track on that one - I HAVE read the poem and it is a very powerful piece of work. It just slipped my mind but I have definitely come across it. Not surprising that I forgot I suppose - I just checked my records and I wrote about 615 different poets and I can't remember them all .