This oven ready trade deal with the EU Boris said he'd got

JLR Opened a factory in Slovakia with EU permitted state aid we weren't allowed to match and only viable because direct aid from EU put the infrastructure in place. So much for the "level playing field" the EU set great stall by.

 

Agree, he doesn't. What he does get is to say to his electorate, you were shafted by the Brits, I tried my best. If he is party to any deal which the French perceive as less than they already have, he'll be even more unpopular. All politicians tend to act in their own interest first.

 

What did they vote for it then? If they knew they were being lied to, knew they would be worse off, knew it was all garbage and they were dumb or naive to think otherwise, why did they do it?

 

They don't like foreigners especially the ones the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and Sun kept telling them were responsible for all their troubles even through like the majority of comment on the EU from the right wing press and right wing Tories it was ********.

 

Agreed on all but one thing, and that is that the pandemic has not caused the economic damage, lockdown policy is the cause.

 

As a proponent of Brexit and a pretty decent guy, I don't think @Dalestykes was suggesting racism/xenophobia was the reason why people voted that way.

 

Thick people are easily led. Thick people read stuff and automatically believe it to be true. Thick people constantly read (and watched on TV) a plethora of slurs against the opposition party, particular its leader, for a good few years, and believed it.

That's why the vote to leave won, and why - in the main - the Tories (with the help of Farage) won the GE.

There are other factors, but that'd be my summary in brief.

 

as you can see Jay, others have answered why I think many/ most voted for Brexit. Nothing to do with economics and a lot to do with perceptions of culture.

 

I replied to your question within that post, myself. I wasn't responding to Dalestykes.

 

As a remainer, for me the one, single solitary strong argument for Brexit that I think was tough to counter was the ideological purity of sacrosanct U.K. democracy - that we had the right to vote in the people who made our laws. However, the Coronavirus Act 2020 has taken away effectively all democratic powers from Parliament and by extension from the voters and the Government is free to act as a junta now anyway.

So in short, you’re right, there aren’t any.

 

I think ours crossed as well Jay. Sadly I do think those rather negative reasons are the ones why many/ most voted for Brexit. They weren’t my reasons and I was VERY conscious I ended up in the same camp as some very distasteful bed fellows. But we on the left, centre left ignore ‘cultural reasons’ at our peril.

 

I think the UK is split and I don't see what Clownface and his circus of goons is doing thus far, will mend it. I have nothing in common with Leavers I'm afraid to say. The anger won't subside for a good twenty years at least I'd reckon.

 

How do you come to terms with that? I'm not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested. And if I you do respond and I don't answer for a while, it's because I've gone to bed and then to work.

 

And anybody with any political sense knew that's what would happen and said so. Corbyn was always going to be an easy target because the press didn't have to try very hard to find stuff to beat him with. You have to take people with you and not just like minded people you have to win people over. Corbyn was never going to do this he was never going to win but he and his buddies couldn't accept that reality even after failing to beat May after she and her campaign imploded they ploughed on regardless and ended up with the worst labour defeat for 80 years and the people they claimed to care about the people who need a Labour government are the ones suffering the most.

 

It's far too late buddy for me to summon up the determination to get into this argument with you again. I disagreed in the past with you on this particular topic, and I still do today. There were many things that caused that Labour defeat. Would another leader have fared better? We'll never know. But old Keir is hardly running away with the polls is he? And why? Because the Labour party remains a warring, fractious organisation and the leader at the moment struggles to have an opinion. It might work out for him. Let's hope so. Because as shitty a version of Labour as this currently is, it's not Tory.

 

Maybe it would help if comrade Corbyn wouldn't keep opening his mouth and shooting the labour party in the head everytime he does. He just doesn't get it what you say who you meet who you surround yourself with matters the labour party have always faced a hostile press the secret is to not help them by giving more muck to spread than the world population of cows gives farmers to spread on their fields. Like you said thick people believe what they read or are told so maybe the best thing to do is keep quiet.

 

Very true, maybe we can just dump them for free as a parting gift.

 

Well let me give you the reasons I voted leave. Not to try to convert, just to explain why a fully paid up Member of the Guardianista could still weigh up the options and vote to leave.

1. I am an Environmentalist. In my lifetime I have never seen a policy as damaging to the Environment as the CAP. Coming out of the EU means we’re no longer subject to it. We can actually take nature recovery and climate change more seriously. Moving farming, and farm payments, in large parts of the country away from wasteful and pointless ‘food production’ to something much more valuable and meaningful.

2. I’m ‘of the Left’. I don’t like or believe in the neo liberal EU economic model. It isn’t the solution to the planets needs as we move to towards the middle of the 21 century, and I don’t believe it has ever catered to the ‘needs of the people. I know this view puts me in a very small minority - even on the Left where most seem to believe that ‘Labour can just manage it better than the Tories’. No they can’t. It’s a poor system.

3. I think the trajectory of the EU is increasingly right wing, partly because that’s the way of the world at the moment, partly because the EU has some Members who I would have removed some years ago. Ethics has to play a part sometime surely , so how can the EU continue to allow the continued membership of Hungary and, to a lesser extent, Poland.

4. Here’s the ‘buggy’, and I know this will piss people off but, the single biggest reason for me voting Leave was because I thought it would speed up the destruction of the UK as a political entity - and that would be a good thing because what was a pretty successful 20 century concept is not fit for purpose in the 21 century. The UK, a country approaching nearly 70 million people which allows itself to be governed by three fat blokes sat behind a desk in Whitehall. Farcical, and Covid has illustrated that in the most explicit terms through what must be the most centralist structure in Western Europe. As you can see, I’m not a fan.
I deliberately said I thought Brexit would speed up the process not cause it. Scotland and Ireland are surely on there way to a better approach, and good luck to them. My hope, and it’s no more than that, is that in the medium term the people of the a North of England get off their knees and demand something better for themselves too; hopefully within a federal structure, but if not then .....

Please don’t think my vote ignored the benefits of staying in the EU. I like to think of myself as Internationalist and outward looking by nature but I think, once the shockwaves have subsided, those of us that see ourselves in that way will be able to recommence our lives. What is less easy to reconcile is, I absolutely recognise the value of the EU in bringing peace to a continent for nearly three generations now. That peace is not the ordinary state of affairs for a group of people that have systematically slaughtered each other for centuries. It’s hugely valuable and I accept that leaving the EU does nothing for the cause of that continued peace.

As I said at the beginning, not trying to convert anyone, but not everyone who voted Leave is a card carrying bigoted racist who won’t take the knee.......just most of them!

 

I don't think a lot of people who voted leave thought they'd be worse off economically. I think they had a sense of our country being so important globally that we could just do our own thing. And that we would save those big amounts of money that were bandied about during the campaign from being in the EU