Meanwhile... There's a new Tier 4

Not when you look at the demographic of those who are dying. Forget underlying health conditions for a minute. When you get old, you don't just die, you die of something. Something kills you. The most common are heart disease and cancer then things like respiratory disease, alzheimer's, stroke, diabetes. Respiratory diseases like flu and Covid are the next. For old people whose immune systems aren't as strong as younger people and whose general health and robustness isn't as good as it used to be then any of these can be and are fatal. There will be people on the list who shouldn't be, people whose deaths were not related to Covid at all, they'd just happen to have had Covid then died of something else entirely, but most will be, at least in part, due to the coronavirus.

But I don't think that's the most pertinent question. I think the most pertinent question is: what was the life expectancy of the individual who died before contracting Covid-19? I think life years lost is how it should be judged. For a small minority, tragically and heartbreakingly, that will be significant years. For most, it won't. It won't be measured in years, it will be measured in days, weeks or months. Does that make it OK? No, it's still death. But what we're doing to tackle it isn't OK either and there's a strong argument it is resulting in far more life years being lost for the population than those lost from Covid-19.

 

Are you convinced to pull your mask over your nose then?

 

Has anyone noticed how nobody dies of ‘old age’ any more?
I had a Grandfather die, before I was born in the 70s and a Grandma die in 1982, both of ‘old age’.
But nowadays they have to stick a more complex label on the cause of death.
If I die at 96, I’ll happily take ‘old age’. Don’t waste time cutting me open to tell my ‘kids’ in their 70s that I had heart failure or whatever else...

 

Too busy holding his breath.

 

Just wait until they fast track tier 4 for the vaccine .

 

the government hasnt published the guidance yet. no restrictions. no nothing. therefore no new tier.

 

You do love to be misleading don't you. There are three sets of death data.

1. Deaths within 28 days of a positive test. This is indeed all causes and the latest figure is 67,075.
2. Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate. The latest figure is 76,287.
3. Excess Deaths. The latest figure is 79,716.

The people you refer to in 1, whose death is nothing to do with COVID-19, aren't included in the figure at 2. So the person who gets hit over the head with a hammer by a smackhead or gets splattered by a bus isn't going to have COVID on their death certificate. Maybe they should only show the higher figure at 2 on the news bulletins then.

 

I'm just glad we had that lockdown in November to save Christmas. Wales are loving the lockdowns so much they have another one planned in for straight after Christmas. It's clearly working brilliantly

 

What are the penalties for non-citizens in UK for breaking the rules regarding COVID?

 

Fines of 100 pounds for individuals and thousands for businesses.

 

Theres only 371 sleeps til Christmas.

 

Trauma deaths, the one's that are beyond any reasonable doubt not in any way attributable to covid are not included in the statistics. So someone who has been shot in the head and their brain lies in parts over the pavement died of trauma and nothing else (just like someone in a plane crash).

 

Doesn't that last paragraph that is cut off say what deetee said?

 

Your screenshot ends with...
For several months, the COVID-19 Data Dashboard has been reporting, for England, all deaths in people who have a positive test. This a robust measure as it uses the fact of a positive test and the...

Let's move just one tin sentence further down the page shall we?
...fact of death to derive the number reported. However, it is only an approximation of the number of people who die from COVID-19 because other causes of death are included and some people who die from COVID-19 never had a positive test.


What a coincidence. Your screenshot started mid paragraph of irrelevant text and ended one sentence before the part that showed deetee was correct.

Are you Matt Hancock?

 

Fuck1ng hate Christmas anyway

 

We didn't have lockdown in November.

Schools still open.
University's still open.
Free for all in supermarkets.
Work from home if you fancy it.
Don't visit other people if you don't want to.
Places of worship still open.


All they did was shaft hospitality - but it wasn't a lockdown.

 

What do you mean don't visit other people if you don't want to. Was it not the law?

 

Can't visit family but I've still managed to book a plumber to come tomorrow to measure up for a new bathroom and got Currys sending someone out to swap out my gas hob for a electric one.
I've had a all host of various trades people in my house since October actually.

 

And small independent retailers. Thankfully it wasn't as bad as the one in March/April but following on from that it was still very damaging.