Anybody on here who voted Leave and then Tory...

A Barnsley Donkey, he'd certainly have more common sense and character than the current bunch. Schooled in Tarn not Eton. Bet Amos would have known just how busy and important the Channel crossing is.

 

Whilst factually incorrect.

 

I'm left leaning mate and have worked under 5 different PM's. Most civil servants, though they didn't like the Coalition / Tory cuts and the PM's linked to them. At least they had a slight grasp on reality. The last 18 months even without Covid is the worst I've ever experienced on a professional level. They are completely clueless.

 

Of course you should.

I don’t even believe Starmer is as bad as painted (discussion for another day) but unless you vote Labour what chance do you have of getting a left leaning government

to not do so, would make you as daft* as the lefties who voted for Brexit because the EU is too right wing. The clear outcome is that they’re left on an even more right wing island.

*apologies for the lefties who voted for Brexit; I understand the sentiment but the obvious outcome makes it illogical in the extreme.

 

I keep reading this. But it's not what actual people tell me when I speak to them. They just want Brexit delivered. They aren't interested in a deal. They want Brexit done. When asked, they say it's about taking our country back, not being governed by Europe, patriotism and too many foreigners.

The Tories will replace Johnson next year.

I don't think this as cut and dried as some seem to think. The negativity around Starmer is massive and only growing. If the media do any kind of hatchet job on him, as they did with Corbyn every day for five years, he's knackered.

 

This thread convinces me that the Tories (whoever is leader) are going to be in power for as long as they were in the Thatcher years.

 

But it's people like myself who have spoken out in support of Corbyn who are being removed, censored, suspended etc etc. Is that ok? I don't feel it is. I supported the Labour policies under Corbyn. I loved that vision, that dream. Why are people who feel this way being treated like the enemy by Starmer et al?

 

You are quite right i dont know that as a fact as neither do we know what the outcome would have been if labour were in government. I would like some odds from Orsenkaht but my bet would be that with with Corbyn as Prime Minister we would still be in the sh/t.

 

I'll never vote Tory. I've voted for Labour every time but one (Green in 2005 because of Blair's Iraq exploits).

Also, see my reply to Loko.

 

How’s he going to attract these middle ground voters? He’s another London leader (‘Labour doesn’t care about the north, only London etc’), he’s a former Lawyer, he was a remainer. This is why I don’t see how the numbers add up for him to alienate the left of the party. I can’t see him gaining enough support from the middle ground voters you speak of to get in power.

 

I'm a Labour councillor and your opinions do nothing but cause more division and unrest in The Labour Party paving the way for more years of cruel and inept tory government.

I was out campaigning for Corbyn last year I'd of loved him to have won but the message didn't get support and Boris swept up.

It's time to move on and become electable I voted for Starmer as his pledges aligned with me and as a councillor generally the public are pleased to have a Labour Leader they can vote for.

I voted remain I didn't trust the tories to handle leaving fairly in order for most of us to prosper and thought the deal in the EU outweighed what we could get.

Corbyn had two chances in 17 and 19 to take control of government and Brexit but got rejected and we must move on if we are to win in 2024 and start to turn things around.

 

Not defending anything, we are were we are. The country voted, we have to get on with it or sit whining. Lets all have an uprising and over throw the government, bring in Sir Kier that will solve it.

What do you suggest?

 

Johnson is already a dead PM walking. His time will be up early next year - whether he is allowed to resign on "health grounds" (long-Covid or something else) or ousted once the damage from Brexit/Covid can be attributed fully to him and his cabinet (which is why Sunak or Gove won't be the next leader).

As for the polls, Labour need a 5-6 point lead to win an election thanks to the way that the boundaries have been arranged. Without Scotland, that is a very difficult problem under FPTP. The best solution would probably be a pre-election pact with the Lib Dems/SNP to get the Tories out in return for a independence poll in Scotland *and* a switch to some form of PR in rUK before another election after those events.

As for Brexit, if Labour had supported Brexit they'd have lost the cities. If Labour opposed Brexit, they lose the "Red Wall". Either way, Brexit is still a **** idea. As soon as any version is written down, it loses a massive chunk of support and causes all kinds of problems - not least in NI.

 

IMO We needed a socialist government not a capitalist one & I really doubt Labour could have done worse than this shower at the moment.

 

As a "middle ground voter" none of those things you've quoted as obstacles put me off.

Two of the things you've quoted have nothing at all to do with his politics. The other thing is not much of a handicap either.

The "middle ground" are crying out for something sensible at last. Starmer could provide it.

 

Anyone got any views on the team for the Huddersfield game?

 

All I see in my timeline are Corbynites throwing tantrums so I guess perspective is everything.

but the truth remains the whole left has to come together, just like any divorced family, they have to find the common ground and move on like adults.

I didn’t disapprove of Corbyns socialism, but he was the most appalling politician to lead a party in my lifetime. He’s an activist who should never have been let near the top.

the fact his fan base wore that as a badge of honour makes it all the more frustrating.

I voted for him, but I’m not sure he’d have ever had a chance of realising his agenda, because he couldn’t do ‘politics’.

the irony of course is that he spent 30 years as a pain in the arse of the party leadership, who nevertheless just let him get on with it. But as soon as he was in charge, he wouldn’t tolerate any dissenting voices.