"Bend the rules people will die"

the economics of it is far more complex.

but talking about the cost of keeping old people alive is considered distasteful in all circles.

Std rate taxpayer eats and drinks a bit too much and dies of pancreatic cancer after a short illness at 60

std rate taxpayer, doesn’t drink or overeat, dies at 95 of dementia in a home.

which one of them ‘cost’ the taxpayer and nhs the most? And how much does it matter?

some people have preventable illnesses, some people have illnesses or disabilities that aren’t preventable. It’s one thing to encourage everyone to live a healthy life, but it’s cu ntish to start pointing fingers and measuring costs.

 

It's not ******** about being fat I'm pushing at all. I was pointing out the hypocrisy in the government messaging, which it seems is designed to make people think the problem is other people. The problem is a virus.
It's a bit like the trick of making people think all folk who claim benefits are scroungers who don't want to work and have 3 iPhones, Sky and a big TV.
My scepticism as you put it towards lockdowns is not a denial that reducing contact between people will slow the spread of a virus, I don't think a sane person would argue that point.
Rather it was originally the fear at how long such measures would have to be in place and the huge swathes of damage and suffering it would bring to so many.
Now it seems government are too fearful to even coherently set out the ever changing criteria to end these measures.
Instead seem intent on keeping control by inducing further fear and laying the blame for a virus on the public.
Last year my wife was very close to suicide, my children continue to suffer greatly. One has again taken to self harm and all the support we get from his school is weekly "welfare call". Another friend of mine actually ended up in A&E recently after attempting to kill
himself and being found by his mum when they couldn't get in touch with him.
We too have had a couple of deaths in the extended family where Covid was a major factor. So while you may want to dismiss my thoughts as those of someone with idiotic views on Covid perhaps you will excuse me for trying to look at a things from a different perspective.
All that said I am genuinely sorry for your loss and you and your family have my deepest sympathies.

 

Bang on.

 

Very reasonable post. Perhaps I should have just gone with it's also cun tish to point the finger at the general public for the effects of a virus when the party in government have starved the health service of funding for a decade.
I was simply trying to point out the double standard not actually point the finger at Fat people.

 

And I was replying to SuperTyke

We agree about the government’s incompetence, but the government aren’t going round infecting people - people are. So how do the government try to stop them doing that?

I’m not agreeing w the propaganda btw, but they’re in a bind and have to do something.

 

Unfortunately I think you just hit government policy on the head.
"We have to do something, this is something let's do that"

 

When a few of us said nearly a year ago that what was needed was effective track and trace we were ridiculed, when we said that the countries that had dealt with this best had done that, many piled on to say it was impossible and we were ‘different’.
When the govt spunked billions on a stupid T&T response other people started to catch on that the strategy was flawed.

100,000 dead and this place is still arguing about lockdowns. We still don’t have effective T&T and we’re now hoping that vaccination will be the magic bullet, with the govt playing a game of deflection till they’re rolled out.

 

A new day brings more bad news as hospitality could be shut until the middle of July.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...rs-until-july-17-telegraph-says-idUSKBN29S0PW

 

Hypocrisy? there's been warnings on cig packets for years & years. It's theses tw@ts how are putting the NHS under untold stress:

200 at an house party in Chelsea
150 at a funeral
150 at a wedding

All in the past few days, in areas with high covid cases, now that is disgusting.

 

Is a warning on a cig packet the equivalent of not being allowed to leave your home except for essential supplies, exercise or to work?

 

Its likely not though is it. I doubt the small minority who are doing these things are driving a epidemic. Its statistically insignificant amounts when you look at how many people are still going to work up and down the country.

 

In the last year of figures (18/19) there were 876,000 hospital admissions requiring overnight stays where obesity was a primary or secondary factor.
In the same year there were 478,000 hospital admissions due to smoking.

That's 1.35 million unnecessary hospital admissions from two lifestyle choices alone.

Now which has put the bigger strain on the NHS this year? Presumably illnesses from smoking and being fat haven't just disappeared overnight so we can assume that at the very least the figures will be the same. 1.35m beds used for fat people or smokers because they chose to or the beds used because someone got married and potentially spread the virus?

If we were serious about lowering the strain on the NHS we wouldn't be stopping restaurants from having a controlled business, we would be enforcing diets for fat people and banning smoking.

 

You missed the euthanasia of people with congenital conditions.
What’s the cost of the mentally ill on society? Drug addicts?

 

While I'm not advocating enforcing diets or banning smoking (though actually I may onboard with that one) or banning alcohol sales as some have suggested. It does seem that these are obvious areas to address to reduce pressure on the NHS.
Yet all the focus is on the improbable attempt to prevent the spread of a virus.
Shaming people for breaking the rules and saying they are killing people is all well and good. If we also accept that fat people, smokers and heavy drinkers are also killing people by putting extra pressure on the NHS and potentially taking up resources that could go to others.

 

The problem with Covid is it is taking all our intensive care capacity. It's a different scenario.

 

I agree. I don't actually think that the things I said should be done, its more a case of 'if you're going to take these Draconian measures then surely you have to take those too'. You can't force people to give up freedoms whilst allowing some to have extremely harmful freedoms

 

Considering smoking and obesity increases your chance of ending up in intensive care with covid I'd say they're linked aren't they?

 

I assume then that your line in the sand has smoking on one side of it and visiting your parents in the other side. A strange place to draw the line between right and wrong but each to their own

 

I'm not 100% sure of this but I thought id read somewhere that perversely smoking didn't increase your chances?

 

So its socially acceptable to eat, drink and smoke yourself to death and take up resources as well as increases the chances of becoming seriously ill of Covid?