EU Contract With AstraZeneca

In the wake of 100 000+ deaths in the UK and having just read the posts on the Holocaust remembrance thread I haven't got much mental energy for this one but all I will say is I hope the manufacture of the vaccine is speeded up so all who need it get it as quickly as possible.

 

Nobody is moaning. It was a tongue in cheek comment that every person posting in it was a brexit voter.

As for the issue, it's impossible to know whats what as all the information isn't out there yet, is it? Its an interesting move by the EU to request AZ if the contract is published publicly. They must be pretty confident to allow such open scrutiny, do you think? Either that or its a heck of a bluff.

 

Without getting into the last 3 or 4 years of vitriol on the remain/leave.

It was often asked what the benefits of leaving is/was....

This does on the face of it, seem to be a benefit. Even if not anticipated. Its still worked in our favour.

Not that this vaccine should be politicised, but it certainly is being by more than one country.

 

That's not unfair, but it has to be remembered whichever plant remained it required the sweetener...Spain offered Nissan 80m Euros to keep it there.

 

Not grim at all. Many thousands of people who voyed out are true lovers of European culture, as I am. ---- It is the politics and economics of the place that steered me and many others.

 

I don't disagree with that. And it's a shame that such things happen, but capitalist businesses are obviously going to milk it for whatever they can.

 

I'm not smart enough to work all that out.

Don't have the time to study it either - I'm a little in awe of those on here who can post intelligently about such complex topics.

I'm probably moaning a bit cos it seemed as though you were automatically defending the EU without actually coming up with summat to defend them.

I like to see both sides of a debate.

 

Someone inside the EU ( allegedly) has been briefing against AZ....Handelsblatt reported that the AZ vaccine was only 8% effective on the elderly...the German Govt to their credit have come out quickly and debunked it.
I doubt they'll want contracts to be shown, one of the criticisms in Europe has been the secretive nature of the dealings.
From Die Zeit...
" A few months ago it looked like a great success for European vaccination policy. Just in time, last summer, the EU member states agreed to only promote, order and distribute vaccines together. This enabled the EU Commission to negotiate with vaccine manufacturers on behalf of all 27 member states - an apparently strong negotiating position. However, many MPs such as Ferber and Paulus criticized the intransparent nature of the negotiations as early as autumn. This one takes revenge today. Because what AstraZeneca expects from the EU is explained by the small print and other contracts that the British-Swedish manufacturer signed with countries like Great Britain. Apparently the UK negotiated better.
"Just because the EU is good at negotiating together with the manufacturers doesn't mean every contract that the Commission has signed is good," says Ferber. It seems clear to him that AstraZeneca's announcement last Friday that it would deliver fewer vaccine doses to the EU than stipulated in the contract, but deliver the contractually promised quantities of doses for Great Britain on time, can be explained simply because of the different contracts. Apparently, AstraZeneca can reject Europewithout having to reckon with contractually agreed fines, but not a cancellation to Great Britain. And the group now seems to be taking advantage of this regulation."

 

You've misinterpreted what I was referring to as grim, and I referenced that a bit later.

The glee of a couple of people jumping on such a story. Just as DePfeffel and right wing media have been beating a tubthumping drum.

If the EU have been too slow in this, I don't know. I must admit, I was worried we acted independently so fast, so taking time to make sure it's safe and right and that correct data is provided, I have no issue with that at all. We'll see in the coming days if AZ are in the right, have breached contracts, or are just playing politics.

 

The EU asked today if the contract can be published publicly.

I must say, I really wish the UK picked up more European news. We hardly see anything here and I don't think that helps (and I think its a purposeful tactic by our largely right wing media) with people seeing actual facts and judging things themselves. What we do see are heavily jingoistic pieces. And I think the UK is truly poorer as a result.

 

Doeant help that we have sky who like to pump so much american ***** our way

 

Whilst I tend to agree our track record is not good, I don't think AZ are playing politics at all...they are after all part Swedish...as I said before the European press have been banging on about the Commissions inactivity for some time....I didn't include it before, but they've been haggling on price and in AZ's case wanting more supplied from EU based plants, unfortunately they have fallen short of expectation...it can be solved but not instantly.

 

This is a great post, it does nobody any credit to deny there are any issues within the EU nor by claiming they are the 4th Reich.
Personally I voted remain on the strength of the economic mess it would land us in, not because of some romantic feelings about a brotherhood of Europe, and I expect many feel the same. So I'm big enough to recognise the imperfections of the EU, including its opaque accountancy behaviour, its inability to deal with Russia and China in a cohesive manner, the mess that is the Euro and its ridiculous farming subsidy rules which favour France. But given all that, I'd still vote remain again, because I care about other peoples welfare as well as my own and we will be considerably poorer as a result - you can't spend/eat sovereignty, you can be as free as you like but if you haven't got a job its worth fk all.

 

More sides of debate are a good thing, for sure. And yes, there are lots of complex topics.

You might not believe me when I say this, but I can assure you I mean this.

What I hope in the next few years is that the atmosphere in the UK changes. It's not good. In fact it's really horrible. Covid and Brexit as a double whammy is something a nation just shouldn't have to contend with at once. But I hope the xenophobia ebbs away again. There is huge amounts of hostility, and my fear is it will intensify as people feel themselves get poorer.

The most important thing (obviously these are all just my opinions) is that the Uk gets back to more serious government and the fanatics get sidelined or weakened. I don't think leaving the EU is a wise move at all. And I'll continue to flag negatives as I encounter them and feel impacted by them. And as and when there are true positives that make the planet safer, our people more skilled and our economy bigger and brighter... they should be welcomed too.

I just hope most people can do that. Identify the things that are truly good, and not be shy to highlight whats truly bad.

If there is to be unity in this country, I think that may be the only thing that bridges a divide that still only seems to grow.

 

If only it were just Sky.

 

Half time.

Anyway, the hostility in Britain is fostered by people adopting more extreme political stances, encouraged by social media.

The people I meet and know and talk to in the old fashioned way are still the same. The ones I meet in person

It's only with the lack of responsibility that comes with being able to bleat on sites like these, that intolerance fosters.

I'm no better than anyone else in that regard.

It needs to be remembered that most benign people don't bother megaphoning their views. There's still a silent majority out there.

 

The German MEP shouldn't be saying comments like that and of course it's first come first served.

 

I completely agree, as to your comment about the press in the last comment...reading the foreign press can be an eye opener, it's often balanced and reports the news as opposed to the partisan
stuff we endure....I never quote from UK press, the Mail and Express are brexiteer bulls**t in the main, and the Indy and Grauniad are remain bulls**t in the main....just written to a slightly higher standard.
The european press can be EU critical, I've often posted it on here but it gets dismissed by some as powder puff or just inaccurate...I was accused of being anti Irish after posting a few articlesthat were
critical of Leo Varadkar and their Govt's position at the time of the backstop...not my articles...so don't shoot the messenger!!
My view is that the EU is not the root of all evil, neither is it all sweetness and light...this article appeared in Dublin Live a week or so ago.

''Ireland has been barred from ordering doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit.'
The vaccine has been given the go ahead in the UK in order to vaccinate as many people as possible with the NHS under increasing pressure.
The jab has yet to be given the green light by the EU and there may be delays due to Brexit.
The European Commission said that coronavirus vaccines cannot be delivered before they get regulatory approval.
Today, Micheal Martin told the Dail that an early consignment of the Oxford jab would not be forthcoming.
Although the Taoiseach said the latest COVID-19 vaccine will arrive in Ireland before mid-February.
He said: “We have a much more comprehensive and detailed plan in terms of ramping up then the volume for the next phase, particularly after the authorisation of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which should be on
the 29 January with from the EMA and then delivery for their timeline for mid-February.
"That would be followed then by the Janssen vaccine, sometimes a month after that in terms of authorisation a little bit later on we’ll be getting more supplies of Pfizer/BioNtech and Moderna.”
The AstraZeneca vaccine is set to be approved for use by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) before the end of January.
Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo told broadcaster VRT News last month: “In the UK, they have started vaccination earlier, that's correct.
“But they have used their population as guinea pigs over there, and they have opted not to do these extra tests.
.”Irish diplomat, Ray Bassett, told Express.co.uk: “Our Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, has just been rebuffed publicly when he suggested that Ireland should bring in some supplies of the
AstraZeneca/Oxford COVID vaccine in anticipation of its approval by the European Medicines Agency.
The Irish Government was sharply told by the Commission that this would not be permitted.''

 

Bit of an own goal by EU for me, they could have used this as an opportunity to highlight the importance of being together, working together and beating COVID together. instead these headlines run the risk of doing the opposite and entrenching the mistrust by some about the EU.

 

Like Sad Brewer has posted I quoted some facts (not opinions) earlier in this thread debunking the "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" posts from (anti UK Govt group of posters on here), namely the two situations were not the same. To reiterate - AZ is not refusing to deliver contracted supply to the EU but merely delivering production ordered in advance by the UK Govt and unable to deliver the full amounts produced in EU plants due to production snags caused by the EU late order(combined with fact the EMA STILL have not even approved its use!). The EU not only threaten legal action against AZ (but notably not against Pfizer who also are falling short on current delivery by 60%) but threatening to withhold delivery of pre ordered UK Govt stock of available Pfizer vaccine destined for UK. i.e. holding UK to ransom.
These are two completely different scenarios and bullying from the EU in an attempt to deflect from the sheer incompetence of the vaccination rollout in the EU. You must be in complete denial that the UK has made a mess of it you compare the vaccinations delivered figures for EU and UK to date. Someone on here so blinkered by their ideology recently and bizarrely tried to claim the vaccination program figures thus far highlighted the failure of the UK Govt's handling of the pandemic! I have no idea how that theory worked as I could not be bothered to read the rest of what was clearly nonsense.

It is a sad indictment of a number on here who rush to defend the EU against the UK Govt without having the full facts and yet, simply because they are still bitter about Brexit and/or the Conservatives when someone points them out, they are accused of being "Tory boys" or Brexidiots!
It is vital to look at media on both sides of the channel to try to make sense of things. Too many on here rely on UK media, but whilst outlets like the BBC don't 'lie' they do ignore or downplay many things that counter their pro EU agenda and one of the reasons I have developed a dislike and mistrust of the BBC editorial leadership. As has been said, you need a wide and varied source of information to clear the fog and not just rely on UK media sources. Neither the EU nor the UK are the devil incarnate, but nor are they the 'path to sunny uplands'.