Nicola S....

Having reignited the Scottish Independence argument (not that it has ever gone away as far as the SNP are concerned) and in the light of the recent polls suggesting a Yes vote would be forthcoming I wonder what people really think about the feasibility. Please avoid comparisons with Brexit and stick to the specific point i.e. the economic viability.
Before I continue I would make it clear I have no axe to grind on this built have noted that the arguments for and against seem to be driven (as usual by political ideologies) SNP/Independence follower seek out facts to support their argument.... Fishing N.S, Oil Whisky agriculture all quoted to bolster their argument. Those against quote England propping up teh Scottish economy (albeit the figures seem to support that view) In the cold light of day a plus and minus balance sheet seems to suggest that it is possible but impractical and the population would be worse off for it. On the face of it based on what follows it seems purely purely political ideologically from Scottish politicians seeking more power 'hell or high water' but who knows?...

I have gleaned the following from various sources. It is not bias confirmation as I have no opinion either way as to whether it is a viable proposition or not. Scotland is not going to be towed off into the Atlantic at any time, people will still live work play and trade regardless of independence or not.

• GDP is reasonable (but not much more than a region like Yorkshire and Humberside)..... aided by Oil revenues but since the last referendum, Oil revenue has fallen dramatically and the N.S. Oil reserves are running out.
• Reliance on the UK pound... however UK Govt stated categorically an independent Scotland could not use it. If they continued to do so Scottish Govt. would not have control over interest rates money supply etc. Printing more sterling would not be allowed as it would impact on UK inflation. Nevertheless the complexity of what currency they would have is still not clear.
• Claims that EU would fast track Scotland's application to re-join seem fanciful as Scotland do come close to meeting the requirements for membership on a number of issues and would for a considerable period be net recipients of the EU budget, something the EU could well do without having had a huge hole blown in it after the UK (a major net contributor) have left. In any case one of the requirements to join is to adopt the Euro (albeit some EU reports suggest they have rowed back from that)
• Huge costs would be incurred having to set up embassies,
• Trade agreements as a new independent state would have to be put in place and they in the meantime would have to join the WTO (even that takes time) since it is the UK that has membership not an independent Scottish State.
• IF and when they were to re-join the EU border controls would have to be put in place. I am unsure whether the Trade agreement would apply to Scotland post independence anyway so they may be subject to 2nd country tariffs. ( I suspect that would be the case)
• The Barnett formula, not an insignificant amount subsidises a shortfall of tax raised by Income tax. In spite of claims to the contrary Scotland IS partly subsidised by England

IN many ways I can see the appeal of devolution and it has certain advantages but I have yet to see SNP address those points specifically just vague 'we can easily be economically independent without any clarity as to how to mitigate all of the above. It is quite possible that they may have been addressed but so far all I see is that desire to go it alone comes from the heart and the head is being ignored......

 

Its for Scotland to decide. Simple as that.

 

Very ‘bossmanesque’ if you don’t mind me saying.

 

They shouldn't leave, people are generally stronger together. But why on heavens earth would they want to stay in any union governed by this shitshow and who are we to decide either way.

good luck to them , i hope they have a go and im sure they will make the best success of it.

 

I like Scotland my ancestors are from there,Will Scotch Corner services be an enclave ?

 

They decided in 2014 didn't they? I remember that being touted as a once in a lifetime vote?

 

How very dare you ;-)

 

I remember Scotland voting to stay in the EU too.

 

They did in 2014, all the votes were counted!

 

Living in Scotland gives an interesting insight to the discussion. Despite all the logical arguments for and against no one really knows whether the Scots will be better off independent than in the UK until it has happened and even then it will only be many years in the future.

Logical argument is interesting but the biggest factor driving the Yes vote is the current Tory administration and in particular Boris Johnson.

 

Don't forget the cost of re-building Hadrians Wall.

 

I reference you to my comment about being taken out of the EU despite voting to remain.

 

None of our business really.
Personally, I would prefer to keep the United Kingdom together, but I think brexit has scuppered that; Northern Ireland will move closer to the republic and the people will realise that they may be better off in Ireland than they are in the UK, the Scots feel injustice at being taken out of the EU against their wishes, strengthening the independence view. The real losers in all this will be the minority of English people who are to the left of centre politically, since they will be subject to Tory rule with little if any chance of real change for the foreseeable future.

 

Unwinding a 300 year old union would make Brexit look like a piece of cake.

Aside from the massive economic issues of having no currency and a dependency on collapsing oil revenues, Scotland simply doesn’t have the institutions to stand alone.

Need your driving license renewed? The DVLA is in Wales. Passport office? Peterborough. The number of massive projects required to replicate in Scotland what already exists in the UK would be totally overwhelming.

 

The question really is, do we believe that a people have the right to decide who governs them?

If we do then we should respect the wishes of the people of Scotland and to hell with economic/cultural arguments.

 

That applies to 48% of the UK population.

There’s a stronger argument for London to become independent than Scotland.

 

So did I and almost 50% of the UK...

 

There are so many ironies in all of this.

You can't tell us what to do (say Brexit voters to EU). Take back control. We can make our own laws. We can control our borders. It's not about the economy. It's not about being better off.

We also had a referendum that failed to address what happened after leaving, on what basis we should leave. So as a result, we have no say at all to say Scotland can't leave if they wish without having every detail ironed out. To do so is pure hypocrisy.

Yet when Scotland have a democratic vote, then shortly after are taken out of the EU against their will... those same people ignore their sovereign rights. The goalposts have been ripped out of the ground and moved miles.

How would English nationalists feel if the EU stopped us leaving their bloc? If they had somehow found legal mechanisms to override the vote? Or what if there was a vote in Europe on whether the UK should be brought in without UK residents having a say?

Scotland is its own country which is currently part of the UK. Serbia was once part of Yugoslavia. Lithuania once part of the Soviet union.

Scotland chooses. English voices are irrelevant. It's for Scotland to decide. And to live with the benefits or costs as a result.

 

I have very little idea about what impact leaving the union would have on their economy (not to mention ours), but I wouldn't blame them one bit if they did decide they were better off out - the corrupt, lying, useless tossers we have for a Government have totally shafted the UK for the sake of keeping their bank accounts full and English bigots happy, with little regard for those north of the border.