But that's because they've closed their borders which isn't viable in the long-term. This disease is going to be with us for ever, even with a vaccine or treatment there will still be cases. If these countries want to pursue zero covid then they're going to have to close their borders for ever & to be prepared to close everything down every time there is a case, like in Victoria this week. That sounds a bit rubbish to me.
Of course there will still be outbreaks but you control them. You are then less likely to get variants. The alternative is the slow lingering economic death that we are going through. We got it wrong. It should be ok for the govt to admit that. We should ask for guidance from Asian countries who are used to dealing with SARS and have successfully dealt with this virus. My mate runs a bar in Vietnam. He was closed for 6 weeks. He’s then closed twice more for an additional 4 weeks. Think we can safely say he’s in a better position than U.K. bar owners.
I agree that trying to walk a middle ground between lockdown and not has been a disaster. I've also repeatedly said if you are going to lockdown do it properly or don't bother. To do what you are suggesting would mean keeping the boarders and travel situation as they now (or stricter) indefinitely. Now i personally don't think that's viable in a world where you have a vaccine and can instead have the virus at a acceptable level. Now if the "new variants" are going to escape the vaccine and any immunity we have built I suppose it will mean the end of international travel as we know it for years to come.
No, because we’re worried about new strains. So unless everyone vaccinates within the same short time period you’re never going to have it. I know you and Jimmy won’t engage with it because it’s inconvenient, but what are we going to do about food imports? Make lorry drivers quarantine for two weeks with a lorry load of fresh veg?
I’ve answered this many times. There’s many options. Transfer the cargo to British lorry cabs at the border, track foreign drivers and test contacts. There’s many options. I’m not saying they’re perfect, they all come with logistical challenges, but they’re all significantly better than what we’re doing.
Indefinitely though if you are aiming for aiming for zero Covid? Or until the whole world is vaccinated?
Ok let's say we transfer it to British lorry drivers. That requires commandeering the labour of many thousands of privately employed British lorry drivers. Do you also support forcing retired or privately employed medical staff to work in nightingale hospitals? Doing so would have saved thousands of lives.
I agree with the concept in theory, but I disagree with it as the method for dealing with the virus. Stop people catching it, don't just let it run rampant and put effort into dealing with people that have caught it. That's how you end up with mutations and overloaded hospitals.
Viruses mutate. Its called evolution. As a rule they mutate into weaker strains to survive. No point being a virus if youve no one to infect cos youve killed them all.. As for the hospitals. Theres going to be some very difficult questions coming the way of the NHS in the near future.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties What the actual ****.
As a father of 2 disabled children let me tell you this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. My children have opened my eyes to the disgusting way we as a society treat those with disabilities.
Why? The zero Covid countries aren’t in a permanent state of border closure. They react hard and then they can go back to ‘normal’. There’s no permanent closure,
So the border quarantine procedures would need to stay in place, in fact wouldn't they actually need to be beefed up a little?
Think of it like a household: Your family are all at home 24/7, washing your hands every 5 minutes (so you’re 100% safe) - but there’s a constant stream of strangers roaming through your living room (you’re no longer safe at all) The first line of defence is the borders. Every other measure is secondary to that.
Australia's borders are closed to all but residents and citizens (and rich people of course but that's another argument) who have to quarantine on return. When they closed the borders there were tens of thousands of residents and citizens overseas. Australia also introduced a cap on the number of residents and citizens who could return each week. This left tens of thousands of their own citizens and residents stranded abroad with expired visas, often homeless and in poverty. There are no plans to reopen the borders, no timescale given, no conditions that have to be met. They are, in all but official announcement, permanently closed.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...ree-form-Covid-passport-Britain-lead-way.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...l?offset=166&max=100&jumpTo=comment-655731527 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ml?offset=82&max=100&jumpTo=comment-655728955 Having to quarantine will be small fry compared to people having no real choice but to get vaccinated.
I appreciate that you have personal reasons for being upset about that and despite what you may think I am extremely sympathetic to that. I married following a long distance relationship so I know how hard that is even without border closes. In my opinion it is necessary, but it’s temporary. Would you rather live in a country with very few domestic restrictions (except short term when there’s a small spike) but international travel restrictions or where we are with domestic restrictions AND international travel restrictions? We still can’t open up our borders to travellers even though we’re doing shockingly domestically. The tests are getting better all the time and I suspect very soon there will be a fast test that’s reliable and can be used at the start and end of international journeys. I also think once the vaccine is distributed further (probably when we get somewhere in the region of 80% vaccinated) it will be very difficult to keep up any level of restrictions close to what we’ve seen over the last year. Assuming the deaths drop off, but I can’t see why they wouldn’t.
