Barnsley stats

Heckingbottom pressed, though not as a systematically and we were certainly combative.

But of course it's irrelevant. Pressing isn't what you do in possession is it? Have you seen me complain about our press and our energy? Have you seen me criticise us out of possession and how our fitness tells over time? No.

My issue is what we do with the ball. That's completely irrelevant to who owns us. Stendel pressed, Struber pressed, Ismael presses. All in completely different ways and all played completely differently, including systems and formations that the one that went before. All, also completely irrelevant to who our owners are.

But conflate away to your hearts content.

 

I hate the term "to press". It's just posh speak for "run your gnads off". Every team has to press like you say. I agree with you on this thread. I'd like us to have more finesse when we do have the ball and aren't under pressure. That said I do differ as I'm content with doing what we have to in order to get results.

 

I think the German style of pressing is much more technical and based on conditions and triggers. I thought the Chelsea game showed in the first half just what a team all pressing to a system could achieve in limiting a far superior side, and I think it was that game that gave our players a huge shot of belief that it would work even more effectively in the Championship.

But i think for years, Barnsley have had a reputation for effort. "Battling Barnsley" is from a very long time ago and its part of us.

But I do think there have been some teams set up to counter. in the modern game. Sitting deep in your own half and then spring with pacy forwards. Such a team doesn't press as such, but compresses. We've certainly not played like this under any previous coach. Stendel was nearest with a high line and pushed on fullbacks leaving the centre backs to duel the forwards. But with a two, we were very exposed. Even moreso as the players he'd built a solid platform with were no longer available to try and do similar in the championship.

 

I still don't know what went wrong after the Fulham game. I thought we were excellent that day. Maybe it was the late leveller I've spoken about v Charlton that did for our confidence?

 

We just had a lot of very young players who had very little experience, and even less so in this country at the level they were asked to play. The football wasn't bad, but we made so many individual errors, and Radlinger wasn't great either so when chances materialised for the opponent, they often went in.

Many of the players that are still here are 50-100 games better off, and that makes a huge difference.

 

The introduction of Sollbauer in defence and Styles made all the difference for me. Had that happened sooner I think we'd have been spared the drama.

 

I saw very little of Strubers reign aside from the 2 minute highlights. I think the first game I saw was Leeds away right at the death, when Sollbauer scored an OG and recall being very impressed with Andersen. Back end of 2019 and all of 2020 has been a crazy old time with far too much on my plate.

 

I know your health comes first. Best wishes

 

I thought Heckys team was more to do with pace and hitting teams on the break which we did effectively on our return to the championship. Stendels football didn't work at this level, Strubers did but not against the dirty teams like last night, VI works against the lot.

We play how we need to play to beat teams, it's working, we're progressing and next season we'll be a much better prospect for any future player. Each season were seeing progress, which is what we all want.

 

I want us in a position where promotion to the Premier League becomes an eventuality rather than a dream. A bit like Ipswich in 2000. They'd missed out on a few occasions and became a matter of time and expectancy. Obviously I don't want to feel the heartache like back then again and want it this season at the first time of asking but I'm prepared to wait if that's the direction the club is heading in.

 

Oh it wasn't that, but thanks anyway. Well, that materialised slightly at the same time, but only seems to be getting more serious now, though i wish I actually knew what it was, officially, so then i could get my head around it, or not.

I just had so may things on my plate with family and loved ones as well as business things and then shielding. Crazy crazy period.

 

With possession, Heckingbottoms teams were set to counter. But we did press in the middle of the pitch and our forwards were very industrious. Winnall worked hard. So did Bradshaw. But different styles as we all acknowledge.

I don't think we can accurately assess Stendels team properly given what he had at his disposal. If he had this team with this experience now, I suspect we'd see a much better output style wise and more points than what we got in the small number of matches he was allowed at Championship level. But I doubt we'd have as many points as we have now.

But if we could be mid table playing more attractive football in possession, compared to what I'm seeing now in the games I've seen, I'd always take the former, but fully accept that view isn't the mainstream one.

 

Trouble is, I'm not sure how many sides below Bournemouth play particularly attractive football. And the ones that do are very expensively assembled and are underperforming against the more physical sides.

It's a very physical, demanding league. You need to be very good on the ball to pass through teams and open them up, because defences are so well organised. It's frustrating to see us play balls into the box when you can see a player in space, but I still think in those instances it's either a case of player not seeing that option, not having the confidence to pick out the pass or just picking a bad option, rather than instruction. Just need to look at the home game against Bournemouth to see the risks they're trying to avoid. The mistakes from Woodrow and Kane in particular.

 

But, I think a large part has to be instruction because the players still here under Stendel and Struber played very differently to what they are now. And you've said what I suspect Ismael is asking his players to do. Eliminate risk in many aspects of our play. At times thats sensible. There was a point last night Helik was under pressure and just kicked it out for a throw in. Sensible. But many other instances when no pressure and the result was the ball with Stockdale or into touch.

I don't expect this team to sit deep and pass for passings sake. Maybe its more to say to respect possession a little more and when we've time, not to just surrender easy possession. It may be that time allows a progression as more quality is coached and if we're able to enhance the recruiting calibre, but I just don't think we need to be this extreme in our style.

 

If we employed the subtle tweaks to tactics you're suggesting we'd be more in control during the tighter games too mate. I don't think it's too much to ask. Always room for improvement. That's got to be the next line of progression.

 

I see what you're saying but you are missing the point, in my opinion.

Val was brought in to manage a team that was all but relegated last term, but for a miracle (arguably two miracles). A team that started this season poorly, which brought worry for another slog and another relegation dogfight.

He needed to change our fortunes dramatically and quickly. He did this by moving to a ultra low risk (removing ball quickly from potentially dangerous areas (there was a stat from Sam Allerdyce from years back that said something like 75%+ of goals conceded comes from losing the ball in your own half)) and implementing a high press, something we were already doing. You also have to remember that at the start of the season, he didn't have the personnel we do now. We were missing a big part of the jigsaw with players that could add physicality and hold the ball up in the final third. Add into this all the forward players we had (minus Woodrow), had big question marks as to their effectiveness.

Where we are now, is drastically overachieving compared to the natural state of progression, realistically our aim was mid table. We have exceeded that because we have been exceptionally effective at adapting to his methods in a short amount of time, bringing in players that were missing to make the system effective and been especially clinical in attach and in defense.

My point is that you are being overly critical of our style of play, and I think that is being skewed because of our league position. If we were in mid table, comfortably away from the relegation zone but playing the same way, I think you would be much more positive about how we were playing, because of the lack of expectation being a top 6 team brings.

At the moment results are exceeding performances to an extent, we are very much still a work in progress and despite our results, this shouldn't be forgotten.

We are still adopting an ultra low risk style of football.

What we will see over time, as we become more comfortable, as Val has more time to work with the players, is that we do play football when we get in positions to do so. You are correct in pointing out that there are several times per game where we lose possession unnecessarily. This is obviously an area where we can improve, and we will do so in time. Val his still only been in charge for 30 games!

You don't make wholesale changes in one go, we are still improving. Before then I suggest you focus more on the positives about what we are doing, as to what we are not, because there is a lot of them. Whilst it is not pretty, there is still a lot to take enjoyment from.

I did actually think a move like this was coming for a while, as a response to the 'Tiki-Taka' movement that has dominated for the last decade. As others have rightly pointed out here, it is great when you have the players to do it, mid table championships team don't.

A lot of goals that you see now are completely comical. At some point a manager and a team was going to go against the grain and focus on possession, and playing to your strengths. I just didn't think that would be Barnsley, or Val.

Apologies for the essay,.

 

No need for apology at all, maybe there will be transition, or maybe this will just get more extreme. More set pieces, bigger strikers, more cloggers in midfield, someone who can hurl the ball as far as Marc Roberts. We just don't know and only time will tell.

But my point simply is, this is utterly horrible to watch and I'm not enjoying it. That's all. If we were 24th or 1st. If we were the bottom of league 2 or top of the Premiership, every game I've watched has been painful and just not enjoyable.

So yes, I'll agree we're overachieving, and yes I'll agree he's adopting a philosophy of low risk, low skill percentage football, and obviously he's exceeded all possible expectations in terms of points. But all that considered, the simple truth remains. This style of football is awful to watch as a spectacle and for me, brings no joy or pride.

 

That's fair.

I would also factor into that is that the worse games come from teams trying to counter what we do, by playing how we play. That does create a slog.

BUT, no one is making them do that and it does say a lot about our philosophy that they would abandon their in favour of ours.

Was funny watching Bournemouth v Swansea - Swansea played almost the opposite of how we play, they were sat much deeper and allowed Bournemouth time possession and to come on to them.........they lost 3-0 and created nothing. You have JUST seen how to beat them (quite convincingly in the end IMHO), but choose do to the exact opposite of that? Strange decision.

 

I do think if teams do their research on us the things they want least are to be pressed in their own half close to goal, to concede set pieces and corners and will largely see the super high line we play and think the way to expose our fragility is long balls over the top, probably the channels and wide areas.

And you're right. Fire vs fire is horrible. But if we play teams and apply our style, we'll likely see a horrible scrappy disrupted game, because that seems to be our intent to do so, and if its the same intent from the opponent, it makes for an awful spectacle.