The Boris Bounce

Two ways of looking at this.

1. Reaction to what Starmer’s done over the past year....

“I don’t know what Labour’s about, they’ve got no ideas, and as for that Starmer you never see him he’s as bad a Corbyn


2. Reaction if, over the last year, Starmer had outlined radical visionary policies that would transfom Britain...

“That Starmer gets on my nerves, he never shuts up with his fancy ideas. Typical Labour, where would we get the money from? He should be keeping quiet and supporting Boris what with this virus. All he does is get in the way I bet Boris would have done a better job if he didn’t have to keep listening to all that.”

 

But you still fall into the lazy stereotypes about my generation:
As a Boomer with 3 kids of my own (and not much younger than you, so you’re closer to being viewed a ‘kid’ through my eyes) and a stepchild, why do you think I would want my kids not to ever own a house?*

I’m glad you’re interested in workers rights, I’m also intrigued how you think David Baddiel made some good points but still believe JC is a good guy (I’ve read the book and all I see now is he’s definitely anti-Semitic).

BUT my point is that Labours problem is all the factions and in-fighting. And the more I post here the more chance I become part of that.

*just some clarity on this; socialist boomers don’t think affordable housing is bad economics. We don’t think it’s fantastic that our houses are worth ridiculous sums of money, because the economic reality is that whatever the sum, it’s only worth ‘a house’. Tory boomers otoh see property as assets - there’s a huge difference.

 

If Tracy Brabin wins West Yorkshire Mayor then her Batley and Spen constituency may take some holding for Labour. She only had 1847 votes in hand of Conservative/Brexit in 2019.

 

well the grown up thing isn’t to look for ways to play he said she said, in politics as in life.

Nowt to do with ‘politics’, but the only thing that annoyed me about Corbyn as leader was his petulant attitude to his opponents. He was childish, and that’s a million miles from what I expect of a party leader.

Read the book, rather than pointscoring

 

I would say that for Labour to get back into power they have to start lying and bullying at every opportunity, take the workers rights away, hate the E.U. with a passion, discriminate against the disabled calling them scivers and put a complete idiot of a man with a mop of hair (red or ginger) in charge making sure he's a racist. Then the gullible English people will get taken in and not for the 1st time.

p.s. Put another 2 years on the retirement age that's always a winner.

 

Don't forget shipping asylum seekers off to the Falkland Islands. Always a vote winner.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...a-of-sending-asylum-seekers-to-south-atlantic

 

I think the answer to the Tories success is in the title of this thread; Boris. Starmer is good at dismantling Johnson at their infrequent parliamentary meetings but I'm struggling to think of what Starmer and Labour stand for today. They've largely backed the government on Covid19 which is fair enough but that isn't a vote winner at the moment given the vaccine rollout. I heard something about encouraging savings and another about creating 400,000 green jobs. Anything else? They also need to grasp the nettle and apologise to their traditional voters for refusing to accept the Brexit vote. And then decide what they are going to campaign for and what to hold the government to account on.

 

Personal perspective

I didn't vote on Thursday. I traditionally vote Labour. I have voted Green in some local and European elections. I once voted Lib Dem in a general election then felt utterly betrayed by them and will never do so again. I don't believe I've ever not voted before.

I don't agree with the policies of the Conservative party and I don't like the character or practices of the prime minister. If there had been a vote of confidence in the government, I would have voted against them.

But I was being asked to vote for something and I couldn't think of a reason to do so.

Stop telling me that Boris is a liar and a scoundrel. I know he is. I wouldn't dream of voting for him. Not in a million years. Nor would I ever vote for the Conservative party. You don't have to keep highlighting their deficiencies, I already know. I need a reason to vote for you and you're not giving me one. Not being as bad as someone/something else isn't enough.

 

Depressing comments in here from the usual suspects. Still referring to Corbyn. Still blaming anyone on the left. It’s embarrassing.

Starmer is a disaster. Labour is dead.

 

In an ideal world what you have put would have happened.
But, in the real world the majority of the UK on both sides would not have understood the full implications of the different options. Even now it is evident that many people don’t.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...2?shareToken=6a314379ef7470f67074438454acfd25

I think this article explains the reasons why better than I ever could.

There’s evidence of exactly this in this thread.

 

Some points here I've not seen mentioned. The first is Brown/Miliband Labour losing Scotland to the SNP. It's understandable they're sick of Tory rule and see independence as their route out. I'd be the same. But if we're looking at Corbyn-led elections, if Labour held Scotland on 1997-2005 lines in 2017 they'd be 10 seats short of the Tories. Still not enough but it's a crucial factor in their struggles

There's a lot of rubbish written about Labour left being middle-class theorists tweeting from their suburbs. What rubbish. Look at the voting patterns of the under 40s and you see where Labour support has come from in the last 4 years. Young people all over the country and of all classes are sick of the price of rent, stagnating wages, the impossibility of getting on the housing ladder, the utter exploitation and corruption of public sector cuts whilst the private sector are handed billions for being middle men. We are the future and the core of Labour's support. Starmer chasing the vote from Little Englanders and UKIP voters instead of going with hope for the future and change is a potentially suicidal error. The movement since 2016 that's seen more young people than ever engaged in politics has been about ideas, not allegience. Starmer can't afford to take us for granted. We've been ignored with Brexit and 2 GEs and many are turning their back on Labour for independents or Greens.

Also, where is this idea from that working class people don't want left wing ideas? The policies from Corbyn's leadership (which were in line with most European democracies, not even that 'left'), were popular with voters. They ****** up throwing a few in last minute that looked contrived but take time, years to back public ownership of key services, better pay and working conditions, an end to PFI waste and cronyism... people will be on board.
It was the mud slinging over the leadership's backgrounds that put people off... and Brexit.

 

Are you aware that the changes to the state pension age were made in the Pensions Act 2007 under a Labour government? The coalition just brought the dates forward.

 

The point of a campaign though is to educate and outline just what certain things mean for an electorate for it to make its mind up. Or it should be. Sadly we're long beyond the point of reason and honest campaigning in this country. Its descended to a much more primitive and dark manipulation of the public.

 

I don't think the hysteria of an attention-seeking Times columnist who's clearly more detatched from the people she's speaking on behalf of even than the Labour strategists is the best place to look for perspective here.

"A couple with two average salaries can afford a house and car in Hartlepool. They want holidays, kitchens, wine with their dinner."

What a condescending bitch.

 

Oh, that’s ok then.

 

Like wouldn’t do this justice

 

It’s inevitable that it has to change eventually, bringing the dates forward affects more people and at shorter notice.

 

Yes, your right Skryptic it was Labour, but the coalition did bring it in early around 30 years early 2046 was the date.

 

Starmer is a good person, in politics for the right reasons and is clearly very intelligent. I don't think any of those three points can be debated.

I'm not saying the above will make him successful, or the right man to lead - time will tell. It's a monumental task for anyone to unite this Labour party and voters will always ask a Labout leader how they can run a country if they can't control their own party.