Compulsory vaccinations

The thing with the negative test is that private companies are profiting from selling them (often companies with links to the Tories), and it's unfeasible financially to ask for people to provide a negative test whenever they do anything deemed to be worthy of one (holidays, events etc.). And what I don't understand in this scenario (I realise that many people support it) is people who have been vaccinated could enter a venue without showing a test, they could unknowingly have and spread the virus when inside, yet people who haven't been vaccinated and don't have the virus still have to pay for the privilege to prove it? That's discrimination.

 

So if you refuse a jab that took less than a year to invent, doesn't stop you catching covid or spreading it, bearing in mind 60% of hospital patients have had the jab your a idiot in your opinion? Strange...

 

Spot on. You're also selfish apparently, and an anti-vaxxer who will believe anything.

 

Agree with most of that, but I don’t see what they’ve done that makes you think they would stop short of anything. They’re already so far over any red lines anyone would have dreamed possible 18 months ago.


"Some of life's most important pleasures and opportunities are likely to be increasingly dependent on vaccinations"

- Boris Johnson today.

 

I despair sometimes there all so against the goverment but he turns into a dictator twisting people's arms to get the vaccine for a illness with a 99.5% survival rate and there's no sympathy its there fault for not getting jabbed.

This time last year people were getting called conspiracy theorists for saying vaccine passports were coming.....

 

Pfizer BioNTech and Oxford Astrazeneca vaccines do reduce transmission (around 65% from a single dose) according to this study:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-04-2...-19-infections-found-after-single-dose-oxford

We just don't know the full extent of the transmission reduction yet.

But having the vaccine does protect others far more than gaining immunity through catching (and spreading) the virus.

And although it took a year to make this particular vaccine for Covid the technology and techniques used are the result of more than a decade of studies and tests.

 

It's funny how 'conspiracy theories' are laughed at, and then they slowly become plausible, and then widely accepted as being for the 'greater good' when they come into being. It's like being in Hot Fuzz.

 

That's because they were never conspiracy theories and simply an accurate observation of Nazi Johnson's behaviour

 

It's the same vaccine with tweaks that they were developing for MERS/SARS 10 years ago.

 

Fair enough I can still understand why some people wouldn't want or be reluctant to have it. Especially young healthy people with no underlying health issues.

 

It’s actually 40% fully vaccinated pal. That means if you aren’t fully vaccinated you are 3 times more likely to be hospitalised

 

That's not how odds work mate.

You have to take into account the total number of cases among those vaccinated and not vaccinated to find out how much more likely you are to be hospitalised

 

I can understand too. Unfortunately the reason is mostly misinformation about vaccines. For example the OAZ vaccine causes blood clots in the brains of under 30s.. or so we were told over and over.

From this paper:https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-04-15-risk-rare-blood-clotting-higher-covid-19-vaccines

‘We’ve reached two important conclusions. Firstly, COVID-19 markedly increases the risk of CVT, adding to the list of blood clotting problems this infection causes. Secondly, the COVID-19 risk is higher than we see with the current vaccines, even for those under 30; something that should be taken into account when considering the balances between risks and benefits for vaccination.’

So it actually turns out that Covid causes more blood clots in the brains of under 30s than the vaccine. So there is literally a proven health benefit to young people taking OAZ vaccine never mind the 'safer' option of Pfizer.

We need to stop the 'vaccines are bad' narrative so people will understand they really aren't and take them. I don't endorse them being mandatory but the deliberate misinformation and 'doubt creation' is genuinely terrifying.

The long life expectancy we are privileged with has been built on global vaccination programs and antibiotics. We're almost definitely going to lose functional antibiotics in the next decade or two. If we continue to lose trust in vaccines then we're going to face big problems.



What I really can't get my head around is guys like Ron DeSantis, Governor of Florida selling anti Vax merchandise and going on fox news to encourage people not to trust the vaccine. All while being double jabbed himself!
20% of all Covid cases in the US are in Florida.

 

So 2/3 of country are Fully vaccinated and they have produced 40% of the hospitalised people

and 1/3 are not fully vaccinated and they produce 60% of the hospitalised people

So if you half the fully vaccinated people to get 1/3 of the country, that 1/3 would represent 20% of the hospitalised people.

And 60 is three times 20 / therefore 3 times more likely to be hospitalised

 

Vallance with the fake news earlier. Good he's corrected himself.

 

I did think that figure was eyebrow raisingly high

 

A few things.
You can't die twice. A lot of the vulnerable people in the age groups which have had the vaccine available to them for longer have already passed away.
The younger people who have the lowest vaccine take up because it's only been available to them for a few weeks as opposed to 7 months for the oldest are also the most mobile and most likely to work in manual jobs where many people work closer together. Production, distribution, warehousing, construction etc. Less likely to catch covid if you're a 40 odd year old data analyst working from home than you are if you're a 25 year old in the hell hole that is ASOS.

The figures on their own mean nothing because they don't take into account all the other variables that come into play.

 

The problem is that the government and the scientists haven't helped themselves at all. For a year they told the young that all these restrictions were to protect the vulnerable and elderly. It wasn't about them it was about looking after others. That message was repeated over and over and over by Boris, by the fiddler, by cun.tings,by whitty and valance, by the BBC. They heard it so many times that they've got it into their head that they aren't at risk and you can't change that perception simply by doing a U-turn now and telling them they're at risk because they've already been convinced that they aren't.

Then there's the whole safety thing. They were all told that the AZ vaccine wasn't safe for them. Not just by the media but by the UK government who even stopped them having it and gave them a different vaccine instead. Regardless of whether or not they are actually at risk from it it's already in their head that they are and not just from AZ either. Because the words vaccine, jab and vaccinated are (rightly) used interchangeably between all the vaccines they don't think of them separately. If they're at risk from one they're at risk from them all.

A lot are calling young people selfish for not wanting a jab, one on here is calling them scum. In the vast majority it's simply not true. They're doing what they think is right for them and the people to blame for the way they think reside inside number 10 downing Street, work in Whitehall or at the BBC studios. Their communications over the past year or so have led to people thinking and behaving how they have yet at every turn they've refused to take any responsibility and instead blame the public

 

I get what you're saying and it might work as a rough (but still very incorrect) approximate, however it's not as simple as that.

The people vaccinated first were more likely to be hospitalised anyway, so the people left unvaccinated are statistically less likely to be hospitalised, with or without vaccine. We also don't know the % of people that have tested positive that have had the vaccine. This is what's needed to determine how the vaccine affects the hospitalisation rate.

The vaccine almost certainly reduces the chance of hospitalisation by far more than 3 times.

 

I agree. But hey three times is good enough for a start.