Freedom day update.

Had a quick look into the studies available but I can't find an actual figure for deaths and serious mental health issues caused by lockdown. If it exceeds the 4 million confirmed Covid deaths then I apologise. And I mean that genuinely.

There is a definite argument that for both waves if we'd locked down earlier and harder we would have actually spent less time under these oppressive measures but in the end that's just that, an argument. Whether it would have reduced total covid deaths is hard to predict but I would have given more freedom if we could have reduced the waves and opened up quicker.

I don't claim to have all or even any answers relating to the very serious issue you've brought up. But I have also avoided overly politicising my opinion or playing BBS bingo by trying to blame differing opinions on Mrs Thatcher making everyone heartless and ruining the country. You make it sound like the world was a joyous place before she came along. It's not like we were in the midst of a cold nuclear war that spanned multiple political affiliations. Or that during the Great Spanish Flu people weren't avoiding others who needed help through fear for their own health.

Thatcher was just one in a long line of dickish world leaders dating right back through history. It's 2021, she's dead, get over it. If you think society is in an intolerant place then rise above and set a better example. I'd be far more likely to listen to you if you did.[/QUOTE]

Gotta love a bit of passive aggressiveness.

 

Ok I tried not to... But I'm biting! But with the disclaimer that I don't really see the merit in anecdotally comparing strategies between countries. It's near pointless due to the massive, geographic, political and social differences. Eventually there may be studies which generate comparable statistical data but for now it's just supposition.

Sweden:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0249732#sec010

This scientific study suggests approximately 2000 deaths could have been prevented by a national lockdown for minimal economic impact. I'm not sure you can compare the value of education and quality of life versus human death but if you could then Swedish quality of life in the pandemic cost 2000 human lives. I'd be interested to hear how most Swedish citizens feel about that information.

Australia:

Despite locking down hard and early, every state has spent less time under lockdown restrictions than England (322 days) Even Melbourne (194) with it's supposedly excessive 112 day lockdown last year has had over 100 days less. Not to mention that from a population of 25 million they've had a total of 33000 confirmed cases and under 1000 deaths. We had 35000 confirmed cases in England yesterday. There were 1662 covid related deaths in England on the 20th of January this year alone... Nearly twice their total. Their extreme lockdown rules have lead to less time under restrictions than us, with massively lower case numbers and deaths.

According to everything I've read, the low vaccination levels are down to a poor rollout; relying on OAZ; and unavailability of PB, not people thinking they're safe.

I also just googled Australia unrest and got absolutely nothing. Scott Morrisons approval rating, though down, is still 51% which is way better than Johnson's.

On that subject, the Swedish PM recently became the 1st ever to lose a no confidence vote.

 

Last on this, but i honestly cant belive so many die hard labour supporters on this forum are supporting boris in his crazy vaccine passport idea. When labour look set to oppose it.

 

Buy a set of these fckers, we'll b reight.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57940657

 

And half the staff using them as beard nets, including the women.

 

You don't need to wear them any more mate.

 

What? I've been 3 times since the 19th & the vast majority are masked up. are you talking about the one in town?

 

Huge anti lockdown crowds in Trafalgar Square today from a wide range of different groups. It's far from the usual protest groups you see of mainly white angry men of a particular age group out to cause bother. I cannot remember seeing anything like it before where regardless of age, sex or religion something is bringing together such a huge crowd.

 

What are they actually protesting against?

 

Vaccine passports creating division in society. I agree with them that they shouldn't be needed in any setting under any circumstances. We will see of Keir has grown a back bone when it gets voted on.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57952516

 

Fair enough.. missed that. Their record of containing the virus is still remarkable though.

 

Starmer and backbone in same sentence. Interesting.

 

2020: These crazy extremists think vaccine passports are going to be a thing.

2021: These crazy extremists don't want vaccine passports to be a thing.

 

lack of brain cells?

 

I'm a bit bemused that whether Starmer has backbone or not seems to equate with whether he agrees with the view that individuals who criticise him have. His resume even before he entered politics ought to be enough to persuade people about his 'backbone'. It's time Labour had a grown-up in charge and supporters had the balls to support him against a corrupt and incompetent Johnson administration.

 

Genuine question, not trying to put down your point but just curious on your opinion...

If cases get really high again or a new variant emerges, would you prefer a lockdown where noone can go like last winter or people who are double jabbed to be allowed in even if we're locked down.

Ignoring other options for now.. I know there are plenty. Just curious on your opinion in that scenario.

 

Segregation based on medical history

 

If cases are really high it depends on if people are actually getting ill going to hospital and putting pressure on the NHS to the point where a lockdown is necessary even given the negative impact it leads to down the road on the NHS.
Sorry but the question you are asking is too vague really.
Cases are irrelevant if we are pursuing the vaccine as a way out.
A new variant is only a issue if it has "vaccine escape" if it does the vaccine status of individuals would again be irrelevant.

 

I think Labour are back in the brexit conundrum where they don't k ow which to play it.
On the one hand they want to hold the tories to account on the shambles of the last 16 months and seems the postion is we shouldn't be relaxing the restrictions the way we have ect.
On the other many tradiontal Labour voters have been hard hit but the last 16 months and have had enough with all the restrictions and just want to get back to normal.