Ken Loach getting removed from Labour party?

And while we’re here:

Labour isn’t and has never been ‘a party to be supported only by the working class’.

It’s the party that supports the working class, but many working class voters have always voted Tory, whether because they’re happy to be cap doffers, or like Americans, they believe that they’re potential millionaires who happen to have been unlucky. We will never convince all of them to vote Labour, it’s a ridiculous notion.

Middle class progressives are traditionally Labour voters. The idea that they don’t belong is nonsense, and worst of all; that madness is loudest amongst Corbyn supporters. The quality of tailoring of your suit doesn’t denote class. Keir Starmer is miles more ‘working class’ than JC. It’s not even a close call, but nor should it even be a discussion.

The Tories I know range from council workers to the owners of SME’s. Likewise the Labour supporters, some are on the bottom rung and some are successful doctors, lawyers etc. Believing in a fairer society isn’t a ‘working class’ thing and if people keep pretending that it is then we’re all screwed.

 

It’s a party borne out of Trade unionism and sworn to Govern for all .
It’s main fundamentals are protection and fairness for all .
From positions of opposition as well as Government it has influenced many Government policies .
Because it is a broad church lots of sections have vied for influence and control from Trade Unions to Champagne Socialists .
It is a party for all unlike the Tory party who for all their denials are still in touch with the notion of Empire and social status .
The biggest influences in who Governs our country are the mass media and whoever controls them whatever policies Labour put out if it doesn’t suit the Media Barons they won’t Govern .

 

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/952956/decline-fall-of-europe-centre-left

A decent read . The collapse of labour is not a uniquely British thing , it's happening all across Europe . The reason ......... Centre left parties decided to get into bed with big business and the media back in the 90s and 2000s to gain power . Then 2008 happened and the rest they say is history . Maybe it's time for the left to break away from labour . This will then allow them to become another version of the liberal democrats and the left on their own will either sink or swim .

 

Breaking up the "big two" may be the only hope we have for a decent, well rounded government in the future.

 

Like having proportional representation.....

For a start

 

Yep I'd agree with that . Very similar to US politics where we have a right wing party Vs a centrist party when in reality 90% of their policies are exactly the same . In this current guise anyone on the left literally gets attacked by both parties with of course full support from the media . Dangerous times if you ask me , echoes of the Weimar Republic pre nazi Germany . That's not to say that could happen but a quick look across Europe and theirs a number of countries not that far off . Italy / Hungary / Poland Spring to mind .

 

That will never happen imo.
The nearest we’ve had imo are the Atlee Goverment and possibly Blair but he sold us down the river with two illegal and unjust wars , the turning of blind eyes and possible coalition of torture and illegal internment and the lack of opposition to mainly US led fervent and largely free reign of pure capitalism which brought down banks , economies. and fragile countries .
So very much have with one hand but snatched back with two imo.

 

And yet they and their supporters keep being accused of being ‘rabid Communists’ Marxists etc etc. Which is it, Left, right, centre, centre left, centre right. Confusing

 

It's even more so with labours Blair government . Take immigration . Ok so we instigated an open borders policy because we needed the workers . Where was the housing policy to house all these workers ? Left to the free market which is now why we have sky high house prices and a national shortage . Labour had full control of parliament under Blair but did nothing . Again this is not unique to the UK . Sweden's government had just collapsed . The reason ....rent controls . There's no housing left and what is left costs a fortune . It's almost as if the policies of the centre left parties have created a right wing backlash but the centre left parties blame the right wingers without looking within to see their own flaws .

 

I think the further left (or right) you go the more the "centre" becomes a dirty word.

By definition, centre is balance, balance is good.

 

But doesn’t the centre keep getting moved by either the issue/s of the day or Govt and Media’s interpretations? Basically, who decides where centre is?

 

When Starmer is being described as in the Centre of Politics you know the Party is f@cked , John Smith was right of centre at the time , he’d be considered left wing now

 

I don't really think your analogy of littering the street is a good one. Corbyn expressed an opinion and interpretation of what the enquiry found. In other words he spoke his mind. He therefore got kicked out of a democratic party for speaking his mind. Simple as that. Not a very good look for a 'broad church'. I must admit I missed your prior post about Corbyn so apologies for misreading your meaning there. I also dont think Corbyn, who I think is basically a good man, was leadership material if I'm honest. I just dont like Starmers attitude to good democratic socialists and the inability so far for him to tell me what Labour stands for in policy.

 

I agree with your comments here. There are a lot of socially conservative working class folk out there. There always have been I think

 

Rupert Murdock?

 

You are on about Corbyn getting removed from the Labour party while the biggest lier since Tom Pep is running this country and running it into the ground and yet all some people are bothered about is whether Starmer is right-wing, left-wing or of the centre in politics. Everyone with a brain should be hammering this Clown called Johnson, my neighbour who's a bobby told me he was not bothered about him lying and was voting for him because he makes him laugh that's what this country is coming to.

 

The brass neck of the neoliberal- we had an actual opportunity to ‘work together’ and get rid of Johnson... in 2019. Si thi.

 

I suspect a large number of people who vote don't actually identify as centre, left or right, let alone the variances and factions within.

What is Johnson? He's certainly not a typical Conservative. If you actually considered his actions and not his lie infused rhetoric, his policies are absolutely all over the place and despite his disgraceful behaviours, it seems his inability to be fiscally prudent are what will do for him and has created such animosity towards him in his own party.

The tories are winning elections because they've gained a larger consensus across a wider section of electorate. BXP and UKIP are gone and have stacked onto the tory vote. Some former labour voters added weight in the north from this section of the electorate. They've also got someone who nods towards mocking groups who have had more protection of late. Displays racist and xenophobic traits. Sadly, this is popular to a certain audience, and some former labour voters.

The more purity that the centre and left covets, the more ideological they push to be, the narrower their respective churches and the longer they will be out of power.

While the tories retain control, not only will they block any form of change to the electoral system, but they will push further to make it harder for them to lose. We're seeing that already. So we can forget any system thats not FPTP. Someone has to beat them in the current system if they are to bring fairness to the electoral system.

And that isn't possible while purism is the driver for the alternative vote to this incumbent government.

 

Yes, always voted Labour. Just don't think the party is in good shape at the moment. Some people unfortunately on here are that closed minded they refuse to accept that people can follow a party but not be happy with it. I just don't wear rose tinted glasses, so obviously get called a Tory for having a different point of view. Quite funny really.

I always saw Burnham as a bit plastic and not being able to get the message across effectively, but I think he has really developed and deserves a chance.

But if anybody thinks that Keir will lead Labour to an election win, I honestly have to disagree. I do think now though that Burnham could.

This in fighting needs to stop though. This pull from the left, centre and moderate right wing elements of the party just can't seem to compromise.

 

Shows how little you know then, with that blinkered and shallow view.

Never voted for anyone else in my lifetime so far. Corbyn didn't convince me because I couldn't figure where the money would come from to match the agenda, but ended up voting for him.

Starmer just not convincing whatsoever.

Burnham I think could turn the party round.