More Tories being Tories nonsense

I’m not his biggest fan. But when push comes to shove, it’s Starmer or DePfeffel who will be elected at the next GE.

No escaping that.

 

This^
When my grandkids ask me how come the Tories managed to demolish the NHS and remove what’s left of workers rights, I don’t want to tell them I voted Monster Raving Loony party cos I didn’t like the Labour leader who could have got elected.

 

30 years ago your choice in Scotland if you were a nationalist was Labour or Conservative over time that changed and they now have a progressive pro nationalist party in effect running their country.

They stopped voting for the least worst. It took time. But they campaigned and fought and stood their corner and effected real change even within a corrupt electoral system.

We need to do the same. Labour is an outdated busted flush. Other parties are available. The way to change the status quo is vote for them.

interesting how many of the but Corbyn crowd now tell us we have to vote for Starmer or we get the ‘Boris’ character. Not a dig at you just an observation.

 

This is where Labour currently are focusing their energies. If this rule applies retrospectively than 80% of Labour MPs including Starmer are just about to be kicked out.

 

This is really, really simple.
If you don't want another Tory government then you vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating the Tory in your constituency. Whether that's Labour, Green, Libdem or the Monster Raving f**ing Loony party I don't care.
If you vote in any other way then you can have no complaints when Boris gets in again because you'll have helped put him there.

 

or you campaign and try to convince people to vote for the party you actually support. If you prop up the 2 party system especially any party not committed to PR then you can have no complaints when Johnson gets in again because you help put him there.

it’s really that simple.

 

Surely that's always been the case and yet Labour rarely win elections. How is voting for a libdem if he has the best chance of winning propping up the two party system?
How is refusing to vote Labour because you don't like Starmer going to help?
You can do what it takes to get Johnson out or Labour can continue to indulge in a fanatical, internecine dance of death while Boris laughs his socks off.
Then you can continue to argue for another five years about the true soul of socialism while the Tories shaft you some more.
Do what it takes, vote for who can win and get the b***ards out.

 

The electoral system favours the tories supporting a party that supports that system helps the tories retsin power.

if Starmer came out tomorrow in support of PR and Progressive Alliance and made the argument for long term cross party working and coalitions. If necessary I would hold my nose and vote for him but as it stands a vote for any party that does not believe in changing the electoral system just props up tory rule.

i have no interest in socialism pure or otherwise. In the last 5 elections I have voted instrumentally on each occasions Green / Lib Dem/ Green/ Green / Labour. We got tories 4 out of 5 of those occasions.

By voting Labour and perpetuating a system that the vast majority of Labour members do not support. If you want other parties to work with Labour then address your views to Labour as they are the only political party that won’t work with others. Your argument is with them not me. If they don’t want to cooperate then the competing parties and their voters should campaign just as hard against them as they do the tories. The ball is in Labour’s court.

 

there's a lot of crap being thrown at the Tories (understandably) on this thread but to excuse the English electorate for their wilful ignorance (again!) takes a lot of swallowing.

 

fair enough JV

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58495948



Compare Patel's statement with that from Darmanin, it's embarrassing. "Absolute priority," aka "I'd rather an immigrant drown than make it here." There aren't many people I truly hate, but she is definitely one and yet the horrible **** is purporting to speak for me.

 

did any get expelled when they challenged Corbyn's leadership so often? Absolutely ridiculous decision.

 

And in England we already have a pro-nationalist party!
And I’d rather they weren’t in power.

Nationalism is an easy sell, progressive socialism isn’t, which is why those of us that seek it should do whatever it takes to at least ensure we get rid of the nationalists.

But we have different views of how we should achieve that.

On that note though, how do we on the left decide that the Scottish Nationalists ought to be our allies? Yes they share some progressive socialist views but they’re also ‘nationalists’

 

Some more Tory nonsense for your viewing pleasure . They recon their being fiscally responsible in their actions after 10 years and a further 1.3 trillion on the national debt . You really could not make it up sometimes .

 

You could argue that they are. The Bank of England creates money that is later destroyed by taxation, making national debt the money that is in circulation, so by increasing that they increase the amount of money available. Most of that money will go to the 1%, so they are making their friends, donors, sponsors and themselves richer at the expense of the national debt.

 

I’m not saying vote starmer, I’m saying vote for whoever blocks blue. If that’s starmer, it’s starmer.

Tories have a huge majority because the whole right United while some left and centre did too to get rid of a few foreigners.

The centre and left are fragmented.

I wish it were different but that’s just we’re faced with. If we don’t vote for the best placed challenger, DePfeffel will get 4-5 more years (well his replacement when he’s truly bored).

 

My Border Collie has got more intelligence and common sense than Helen Whately, absolutely thick as a whale omelette that woman

 

Loves to chuckle when asked really serious questions too.

 

Well the big error was austerity. As long as your economy grows faster than your national debt then national debt is a non issue . Austerity merely shrunk our economy which ballooned our debt pile with a smaller economy to pay for it . For the ruling classes they managed to get everyone to work for less and extend the retirement age to 67 . Not bad work if your a ruthless capitalist who's business is to screw everyone over for personal gain .

 

We need a progressive alliance to fight for electoral reform if we are to break the establishment stranglehold on power. We can then implement changes that are good for everyone rather than the rich and powerful. I couldn’t take issue with the policies that Corbyn wanted, but it did feel like it was taking us back to the last century.