Right Managerial Decision?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by twillo, Sep 11, 2021.

  1. Men

    Menai Tyke Well-Known Member

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    I think partly the issue is just looking at his record it appears he’s done a great job at his previous club which he did but it was all against the backdrop of building a club with no real expectations of achievement it’s very difficult to then take that to one of the most competitive leagues in the world and make it work.
     
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  2. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    “Val did this, Val did that, Val wouldn’t have done this…”

    Val left. At the first opportunity.

    There’s stuff to criticise about the start of the season, but it’s becoming boring reading some posts that insist on comparing Schopp with Ismael, as if he is the bad step dad coming in to replace a jilted Val.
     
  3. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Love the number of self appointed Captain Hindsight’s this morning. The amount of people posting and lacking consistency with what they were saying only a few months ago is pretty embarrassing. It doesn’t look good.

    For what it’s worth, folk are complaining about tippy tappy football, but excluding yesterday that’s not how we’ve played at all. Playing out from the back doesn’t suddenly mean we over play.

    Comments about not pressing and continuation of that style. The one thing that is consistent in how we approach games is our offensive setup when teams have the ball. It’s still a relentless press and that’s been obvious in every game so far. Luton went long to combat it, Birmingham did similar along with Cardiff, and Coventry and QPR got caught by the press. Even yesterday, especially first half, our forward press was relentless and the shape with a ‘front five’ was every bit as aggressive as last season. It’s not an opinion to suggest otherwise, it just isn’t true.

    Before yesterday how many chances had we given away with playing out from the back? We’ve looked super composed and calm in each game. It’s nervous as hell for the supporters watching, but hasn’t led to anything. It’s made Helik look an even better defender and gives me hope that we’ve unearthed a gem in Kitching who’ll only get better. Despite this, we’re insisting it’s causing us problems. But is it? Because the chances Birmingham created weren’t through playing from the back and neither at QPR second half either.

    I know we’re football fans and every rubbish performance is ‘the worst ever’ but surely you’ve got to try and pause for a second and give everything context. Our match day squad this season has been bordering on mid-table League One. Maybe Val would have got a better tune out of it, but there’s no guarantee. Up until yesterday we’d only lost one game and that was by one goal, and Bournemouth stuffed us 4-0 last season at Oakwell and despite how well we played last season at their place we tend to over exaggerate that performance and forget the 3/4 proper guilt edged chances they missed second half as well. Could have easily lost.

    Final point for balance. Once Val had better quality players in the squad post January he used the five subs left often, so I think he’d have been fine adapting under this season’s rules. We also weren’t ‘found out’. Our form hardly plummeted, it just wasn’t record breaking anymore, but that was always going to happen. I loved the ‘Val Way’ and found it entertaining. If the Schopp way is more like Cardiff and QPR and less like Bournemouth and Luton then I’ll love his way as well - especially when he actually has a Championship Match Day squad to pick from week after week.

    We’re aiming to cement 12th as our base position in the Championship. Some seasons that might drop by four places, others it might go up by four places. Summer upheaval and injuries will dictate that and we’ve had both right now. The panic button is being hit with way too much viguor today.
     
  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    We all want him to be great and Kan will be the time to review but no one can pretend it’s been great so far.
     
  5. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    too early to be make any proclamations either way but one win in 7 and losing to a lower league team in the cup is not a great start.

    We have through over passing at the back invites pressure in pretty much every game. Birmingham and Coventry are other examples.

    Point about the suns is fair enough but at the minutes my sub we make seems to make us weaker so moot until we have everyone fit and available
     
  6. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    I think that was always going to happen look at when hecky jumped a sinking ship and morais took over people said hecky would have kept us up etc I didn't agree but its opinions.
    People are mostly comparing the playing styles although I'm.not sure what schopps style is the players look lost. The worrying thing for me is we have a talented bunch some real gems in this squad and the performances have been awful its worrying stuff. The lack of fight is something we aren't used to seeing after last season.
     
  7. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, the profile of the squad looks more like the Stendel squad than the Ismael squad. We needed an experienced midfielder in the window.
    My own speculation is that there is a group of young players taking a bit too much advantage of the fact we’ve replaced a strict disciplinarian with somebody more relaxed. We need the more experienced players (Helik, Woodrow, Frieser, Morris) to help get them into a place where the intensity comes back into the game, winning second balls etc.
     
  8. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    We lost on penalties. Wasn’t great, but we played an even weaker team/squad than what we’ve had in the league so the players coming on made us even weaker. At the time everyone guessed we weren’t trying to win that game and understood it, so probably not fair to then use it as an example of poor performance. The squad that night wouldn’t get out of League One so only right we ‘lost’ to a League One Playoff contender.

    All about opinions but I haven’t seen the pressure come from playing out from the back. We’ve mainly controlled the ball and looked a million miles away from the side that did overplay under Struber. The instinct reaction is to compare to Struber who did overplay, or Val who booted it as soon as possible. I don’t see our playing style being a negative right now other than we’re still adapting. If we’re still in a lowly position come the end of November then all this criticism will be valid and people will say ‘told you so’ but it’s impossible to predict when the first team is so light on quality players through injury or lack of match fitness.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
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  9. 55&counting

    55&counting Well-Known Member

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    I keep repeating two words we fans need to show:
    PATIENCE.
    PERSPECTIVE.
    That's what you've perfectly described.
    Unfortunately the knee jerk reaction of many will not stop whenever we lose football matches.
    Football fans the world over are no different to us but I often wonder whether we have more moaners than most.
     
  10. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    We’ll never know, which is part of the joy and unpredictability of football, but considering how amazing we were under Val and how good last season was, do we really think he would have achieved that much more so far this season?

    If you’d have taken Mowatt out of his team, given him Benson, sent Kane out on loan, but then found Benson to be injured, and added Madds, Morris, Kitching, Dike, J Williams and a couple of new signings to the injury list how would we have performed? Everyone keeps banging on about how he used the subs but that wouldn’t have worked when our bench has been so weak for so many of the games.

    I’m sure we might have competed better because the style allows you to always look like you’re in the game as you’re clearing pressure and bulldozing up front, but I highly doubt we’d have gone to Bournemouth and got anything better than a 2-0 defeat.
     
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  11. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    Im a big believer of if your good enough you old enough we have quite abit of championship Experience in the squad collins,helik,Anderson,styles,palmer,Britain, woodrow, benson,Morris all are good enough for this league if used correctly. We even have some premiership experience in benson and cauley and a full international in helik. styles was the best lwb in the division last season now this season he looks a shadow of that. The worrying thing for me is the overplaying at the back and the lack of chances and attacking threat we offer. Our captain cauley look anonymous and spends most of his time looking for fouls its painful stuff poor appointment for me.
     
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  12. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    some valid points most of which i agree with.

    But in terms of playing out from the back to the extent we are I don’t think we have the talent or personnel to do so. last time we tried it under GS we barely avoided relegation and started last season very poorly. I’m no fan of hoof ball but we transition far too slowly and that allows the opposition to regroup hence we create few chances.

    Very early days but worrying signs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  13. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    But how much championship experience do we have? A couple of seasons. There is some experience, but the group of senior players this season is probably Helik, Brittain, Woodrow, Morris, Frieser and possibly even styles. Not sure there’s a great deal of leadership in there compared to what Ismael inherited.

    The fact Styles is our most experienced midfielder says a lot. When you have games going against you like yesterday, you need an experienced core to help the younger players through it and back into the game. We don’t have that in the middle of the pitch at the moment.
     
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  14. SamBfC90

    SamBfC90 Well-Known Member

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    I’m his biggest critic, although I admit he probably needs a few more games, however we mustn’t leave it too late if there’s no sign of improvement otherwise a gap will start to form between the bottom 3 and the rest of the league.
     
  15. 55&counting

    55&counting Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of that.
    I am, however , confused with Marcus's tactics so far. Don't think he knows what his best starting line up is yet and I also think he doesn't know which formation to employ.
    However, it's as clear as the nose on a logical thinking person's face, that he needs time.
    The biggest blow for me has been Carlton Morris' injury. The lad is a true leader of the line with heart and skill. Getting him back will be a real bonus.
    One thing which continues to intrigue me is why Marcus hasn't brought in his own number 2. It usually happens with a new manager. Good to see the appointment of tbe Fitness Coach but the Head Coach does need a very capable number 2 and, through pure lack of knowledge on my part, I don't know who that is at present. Not sure whether the current guys are strong enough.
    Adam Murray got far too much stick on here but it's a Murray type character who could have been useful when faced with the current challenges we have. Disco?
     
  16. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    We've only lost mowatt and sol who val had with any sort of experience and val used to play sibbick before him as his legs had gone and needed pace for the high line. All opinions but I don't think experience is the problem here maybe schopps inexperience and naivety is showing with his formations and playing players out of position and the poor football he has served up.
     
  17. 55&counting

    55&counting Well-Known Member

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    ps Bournemouth will get automatic promotion this year.
     
  18. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    We also lost Mads and Morris which is not insignificant really .
     
  19. JLWBigLil

    JLWBigLil Well-Known Member

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    I was Valerien's biggest fan, but he's gone now. We have Markus Schopp and I believe patience is the key. It's no good pretending the reason things haven't gone well is all down to his tactics. Injuries have played a major part in our campaign so far, as have the infuriating visa delays. I did say yesterday that any more performances like Bournemouth and the murmurings for Markus to be sacked would become louder and more vociferous.
    Changes from one style to another, especially when so stark, rarely bring success overnight. i thoroughly enjoyed our style last season. But on the occasions it didn't work, Cardiff away was a prime example, Valerien made changes to the depleted team on the day and certain players never got another look in.
    I can only speak for myself and although yesterday was extremely poor, I truly believe there are mitigating circumstances for our current situation. Others can demand Markus Schopp should be sacked (some appear to believe that action solves all problems), but I'm not one of them.
     
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  20. 55&counting

    55&counting Well-Known Member

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    By way of putting something positive out there.....if Marcus Schopp can reproduce the kind of football we played against QPR in that first half, I think we'll all be happy bunnies.
    That 45 minutes was the best football I've seen from a Barnsley side in years and it shows the potential in the group with this Manager. Replicate that and we'll be more than alright.
    Yesterday sounded pretty bad but as is said these days....we move on. A win at Stoke and watch the mood on here change.
     
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