Minority Report v Nottingham Forest

I was musing the other day as to how Ismael would have dealt with the problems that Schopp has had to face, and with the changes to the number of substitutions since last season. Tonight, Schopp intended to start with Benson in midfield and Callum Styles at left wing back. However, a late change saw Jordan Williams in at left wing back and Styles in midfield. The resulting team members were all at the club last season, and given the injuries to Carlton Morris and Mads Andersen and the departures of Daryl Dike and Alex Mowatt, it could have been the team that Ismael was forced to go with. How differently would the two coaches have tackled the Forest team managed by last season’s Swansea manager, Steve Cooper?


In the first half, the teams were equally poor. Barnsley led from a Woodrow penalty after he had been brought down in the box. It took an age for Geoff Eltringham to reach his decision. Plenty long enough for him to play best of 3 with a coin toss. Nevertheless, Barnsley hardly deserved their lead at the break, and I wondered whether they would be able to hang on. As I saw it, we were trying to play as much like Ismael would have been able to play given the change to the number of substitutions allowed now. We played with the same system. We abandoned any attempt to play out from the back, electing to use the long kick towards Woodrow most of the time. We did not play the press in the same way, but that is very difficult now, but we did try to close down on Forest quickly when they played out from the keeper, and by half time, many of the players already looked tired.


Nevertheless, we stuck to the plan as the second half began, and Forest destroyed us. They could have scored 6 with better finishing. Why did that happen?


Well, this is how I see it. For a high defensive line to succeed, you either need defenders who are quick, or you need the press to destroy the accuracy of the opposition's ball forward. When our press failed because our pressing players have tired and can no longer get close enough, quickly enough to the man with the ball, then he has the time to find an accurate pass through to his quick front players, and they have too much speed for the defensive line, especially when it is too high. It is what I feared might happen last season, but which never did. We were caught out time, and time again. The coach felt he had to do something after we went 2-1 down. He moved Brittain into midfield and the system changed to 4-3-3. As I saw what was happening, I expressed my condolences towards Jasper Moon, who had drawn the short straw. The centre back who had to play right back. The coach felt that he had to do something to try to get back in the game, but it exposed a defender who had been weak against pace all game, to the full glare of it. A third goal came with my prediction still echoing in the ears of the bloke sitting beside me.


But that is not the whole story, is it? The fact is that but for a generous referee, we would not have scored. Cauley Woodrow never was the right type of player to play up front on his own. In order to do that, you need to be either very quick, or very big and strong, and Cauley Woodrow is neither of those things. When our team does not offer a threat, and Frieser, Woodrow and Oduor do not do so, our opponent can dominate the way that the game will be played, and that became more and more true as the players tired. Many on the BBS believe that Ismael could work miracles, but with the team that played tonight and the opposition coach pulling the strings very well, even Ismael would have struggled.


Entertainment Index:

Barnsley 47

Nottingham Forest 127

Match 174


Performance Index: -78


PotM Romal Palmer

Because he was the only one who made a fight of it

 

It’s like you can see the matrix...

 

I'm just here for the indices!

 

Was looking forward to this one, despite my difference of opinion previously

I'm pretty sure Ismail would have played sibbick and not moon.

I'm also sure he would have played Gomez.

Can't say of the Vita, cos none of us have seen him.

Would he have given more time for iseka, or even drafted on Cole.

Who knows.

We have, a lot more options right now let's be fair.. Some may or may not be as good some maybe better. We don't know.

But I think we would have seen a better outcome than tonight had Ismail been in the dugout than schopp

Just my opinion like, not a dig, so don't take it that way.

 

I agree with quite a bit there RR...where I would disagree...to a point, is that Forest's breakaways didn't come from a failure of our press ( or tiredness ) on a team in possession playing out from the back, but from our failure to maintain possession in the midfield areas.

 

I would have played Sibbick for his pace. In the 3-4-3 system the wide players in the back 3 often find themselves marking a quick winger because the wing back is supporting midfield. Sibbick has been let down by his heading this season though.

 

That's fair.

Kitchen and helick win more than most in the heading departments.

I agree sibbicks pace and tracking makes for a better selection than moon has shown.

I've nothing against moon, but feel he is being thrown in the deepend too much too soon as it stands.

 

Romal Palmer looks lazy alately, sauntering around, not tracking back, poor ball retention etc. I only single him out as you chose him as player of the match, all 11 of them deserve criticism on that performance, but none more so than the clueless buffoon on the touchline.

The tactics are woeful and I get the impression that the players don't like or believe in the guy....playing Oduor upfront is getting really tiresome now, imagine Iseka sat on the bench watching a left-back (and not a very good left-back at that) starting in your position....Schopp has lost the plot...big time.

 

Find myself in agreement with this assessment. It seemed like we were trying a poor imitation of Ismael's style but without the compensation of at least getting the result. It's not good to watch - even from the comfort of the sofa.

 

Do you think he should walk today?

 

Yes. Walk the fekkin plank.

 

Brent mused......

 

Conway says it cost 500k to reach the play offs last year but how much will to drop into league 1?

 

I have been away for the last few weeks. So fortunate enough not to witness our demise. What I find odd is that Schopp was successful in Austria playing a very different formation. He seemed to have a unique system where he overloaded areas of the midfield and only pressed teams when they got past the half-way line using this overload. Then counter-attacked.

He then was appointed Barnsley manager which given we played a very different formation last year and had the players to fit that system was not an ideal appointment and didn't seem to fit.

What we've seen is Schopp sticking with last years formation with 2 in midfield rather than his preferred 5 and getting over-run in every game.

Other Barnsley managers were allowed to play their own formations and versions of the press, so I can't fathom why Schopp didn't implement his own style, instead he seems to be going for a Val-lite approach. But he isn't Val and can't pull it off. Now he seems committed to this system and it's way too late to rip it up and start again.

If we keep playing as we are he's gone. If he rips it up and introduces his own style it'll take weeks for the players to learn and he's gone.

We're basically in a lose-lose scenario.

 

We aren't in a lose lose scenario because he shouldn't be employed today. Sack him instantly it's the only option

 

Well yeah, pretty much my point.

 

Agree with your tactical assesment RR, however i disagree with your mom and by some distance.
Last year you could see Palmer had something ...but was let down by his inability to play consistantly for more than 40 mins. This year again hes looked good in flashes but last night his head was in the clouds. The tight triangles and tricks and flicks are not what is required at the moment. We need solidity and probably go with the coaches 5 in midfield. Gomez just has to start because he can tackke, pass and organise.
As much as i hesitate to say this but put victor up top.....just to hold the ball up too.
Every team so far have done their homework on us and play balls over the top/into the channels and through us, only Collins has kept us in the majority of games. After 10 games the coach needs to see what we can do and react much quicker to what we cant.

 

Romal Palmer MOTM?

He shouldn’t have got to half time. Gave the ball away every time he got it and should have been booked 10 times for persistent fouling.

He was the worst of a rabble of dog turd.

Brad Collins was MOTM by a country mile. It would have been 10-1 without him.

That was as far removed from a Val performance as well. No energy, no fight, the press was lethargic in the main apart from a few bright spots.

We try to pass it, Vals team never did, especially in our half.

Other than that I agree with everything you said.

 

I actually thought he was one of our better performers. Opinions eh?