New Zealand COVID

Not for the dead ones

 

By that logic we should be banning a lot of things.

 

Yes there is the right to not be vaccinated. Making that choice may impact on your leisure activities. Your choice, which is how it should be.

 

Gets a bit complex when you consider someone with a negative test result may actually be safer to be around the someone who has been vaccinated.

 

Why?
That really is a stretch.
We’re discussing allowing people to choose a medical intervention, and at what point someone proves themselves incapable of making an informed choice.
This is a very real issue that’s getting more significant by the day. In every decade I’ve been alive, the human race’s knowledge of science has increased, and the general public’s understanding has similarly followed.

But suddenly we find ourselves in a world where people are actively choosing ignorance, misinformation and lies. (I appreciate the point about religion, but largely it remained benign).

The last rise in pseudoscience was in Germany in the 30’s, so its worrying that the pseudoscience followers are calling the Government vaccine campaign ‘fascist’, in a complete reversal of fact.

 

Could do both.

 

Definitely think both should be acceptable.

 

I wouldn't personally dismiss religion as benign. When you think of suicide bombings, planes being flown into buildings, suppression of women's rights, suppression of LGBTQ rights, honour killings, arranged marriages to minors and systematic rape of children.
So given the total lack of any scientific evidence to support it and the harm it causes are we saying the wilful ignorance of people to follow religion should be stopped too?
In some ways I think yes, but I realise it wouldn't actually have the desired outcome. No matter how wilful ignorant I think otherwise intelligent people believing in such obvious nonsense is.
Do I personally think everyone who can should have the vaccine? Yes I do and I have even encouraged friends and family to do so.
I just don't think forcing it onto people will help, but hey I could be wrong. We have seen a really high take up so thats good, some messaging must be working.

 

Did you ignore the word ‘largely’ on purpose?

I could rant all day about the evils of religion, but when you consider the vast majority of the worlds population consider themselves to be religious, the actual harmful followers are a very tiny minority.

And if you think I’m advocating ‘forcing’ anyone to have a vaccine, you’ll have to quote me doing so

 

Is the vaccine passport system designed to keep the unvaccinated safe or to keep the vaccinated safe from the unvaccinated? I think it is actually the first but most people seem to think it is the second (which doesn’t make sense as the vaccinated people - apart from the CEV, of course) have their own vaccine keeping them safe.

If the purpose is to not overwhelm the NHS over winter, and I think I’ve seen that it is mainly the unvaccinated that are needing hospitalisation and dying, then not allowing unvaccinated people to be in large groups with no social distancing could be a way they are attempting to address that problem. For a negative test to be an option, it would need everyone attending to show one, as vaccinated people can still pass on Covid. If only vaccinated people are allowed to attend then anyone who unknowingly has Covid would only be passing it on to other vaccinated people, who should hopefully be protected from getting seriously ill and needing hospitalisation, and not passing it on to the unprotected. I suspect if they told people that the rule was to protect them, however, people would say it should be their choice whether they are protected or not but, if it’s to not overwhelm the NHS, should they be given the choice to take the option of overwhelming it?

 

That's a very good point and would explain why the vaccine passport policy makes no sense to people when they are told they are protecting others (which as you say they aren't)
It does also open a host of ethical questions.
Anyone who can't have a vaccine for medical reasons for example would not be allowed to attend certain events for their own protection.

 

Also the idea of a vaccine passport is the only way to get in somewhere is if you're double jabbed. Taking a negative test would no longer be good enough. In the Premier League only seven clubs have over half their squad vaccinated and three clubs less than 10%......

https://www.marca.com/en/football/premier-league/2021/10/01/615719a246163f037a8b45d7.html

So if we're all in this together no perks should be allowed. So if fans can't get inside the stadium because they are not vaccinated, Football players shouldn't be allowed in the stadium either so clubs can only choose between players who have been jabbed.

 

Has @Bossman provided a match report on this thread / subject?

I need something more concise.

 

I tried to be concise with my "shut up and get jabbed". Some folk didn't like it though.

 

I've been double jabbed. As vulnerable I'm waiting for my booster & my normal flu jab. Not heard about either as yet.

 

As I said I do genuinely understand your sentiment and frustrations. Hence my religion analogy, I find it staggering well educated adults belive in fairy tales.
I find it incredibly frustrating crazy anti vax folk are putting some people off getting a vaccine that could save their life.

 

Worth a bump. I thought it was bad enough they expect people now to self isolate for nearly a month, but then they trumped that decision when a pregnant New Zealand citizen gets treated better by the Taliban than her own PM....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid...mergency-miq-spot/M5CYHAFNIEXPGRHW6EKAXXPJVA/

 

God I hate these kind of threads.

 

Backward Nation.