The man slowed down BFC plan

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Duntpasstome, Dec 11, 2021.

  1. Sta

    Stahlrost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    21,239
    Likes Received:
    13,309
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    Dodworth
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    I had a beer with a professional football manager a couple of weeks ago, and he explained the pressing game to me like this. He said it was one way for a team with inferior players to compete and beat a team with better players, by working on fitness, strength and agility in addition to football skills like passing, dribbling etc. It works on the theory that it's easier to train players to be super-fit and strong, so they can run around all game and press the opposition players. The performance, fitness and nutritional coaches in the club all play their part in this. If the players are fit enough and can press hard enough, even some of the best players will struggle as there will always be someone "in their face". The Chelsea game (which he watched) was a perfect example of this, and we received lots of positive comments about our performance in that game from throughout the football world. If we try to play a better team at their own game, by trying to pass through/round them, we will come unstuck most of the time because the opposition have better players. We need to press, try to win the ball in dangerous areas, and get the ball forward quickly when we win it at the back, to reduce the risk of losing possession in a dangerous area.

    I think it's clear this season that the players, particularly in midfield, are for some reason not fit enough, so they can't press like they did last season. Once we lose the press, we end up competing with the opposition on purely football terms, and if they have better players we will lose out eventually. Sad but true, in my opinion.
     
  2. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think Val’s press is less reliant on fitness levels compared to others as the ball is cleared long so often. It wouldn’t surprise me if we’re covering more ground on average this season - especially with the clean sweep of striker subs last season.

    Perfect assessment. That’s exactly why pressing has become popular and why unfashionable teams overachieving have always had their work rate credited as their biggest asset.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  3. wolvestyke

    wolvestyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,670
    Likes Received:
    3,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Apologies if this seems pedantic but I don't believe that's right actually - Coleman had managed elsewhere before Accrington, Ainsworth had been caretaker at QPR, but I take your general point. I'd much rather take a risk on an up and coming UK based manager though because I believe the likelihood of them staying for a period is higher than with one from abroad. And before anyone tells me I'm xenophobic, its not because they're from another country, it's because I recognise that we're simply not big enough to attract such managers for any other reason other than we're a stepping stone to something bigger.
    Imo we desperately need some stability and continuity but whilst ever we follow our current policy we won't get any.
     
    onemickybutler and Redhelen like this.
  4. Dun

    Duntpasstome Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    3,992
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Spot on, so possibly if last season our coach had concentrated on developing our players passing, positioning, playing football, controlling possession, playing through not over midfield and game management we may now be in a better state as a team.
     
  5. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    9,223
    Likes Received:
    7,580
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Ashton Utd for Coleman, I agree stability would be wonderful and history generally does show continuity brings success.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  6. Red

    Red CB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    6,666
    Likes Received:
    7,971
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    hoyland common
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Like Schopp for example
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  7. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Agree, once West Brom came in, it would be difficult, but there could still be a case put to him. But the farcical circumstances around Murphy's position probably made it impossible. But it was clear for months how good he was. And he was more valuable than any individual player, yet we had a £2m clause in. I think any other club would've had a new contract in front of him by January.

    Lowe spent two and a half years at Plymouth, got them promoted and established them at a higher level. At the moment, I struggle to see how any head coach will be at Barnsley for that long.

    He claimed he'd had other Championship offers when he went to Stoke. He'd guided them from the bottom of league 2 to the top of League 1 in three years. Again, if Luton were running things like we do, he'd have been gone long before.

    I just think that these release clauses are having a destabilising effect. When you're struggling for playing budget, it is important to have a good head coach so you have to do what you can to keep the good ones for longer than a season. Because eventually, an appointment won't work out.
     
  8. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I suspect the players suffered more as a result of the capitulation of the backroom staff in the summer, loss of fitness and inept coaching this season. We weren't this bad at the start of the season (we weren't great, but we weren't this bad), but we've just got worse and worse as the season has gone on.
     
  9. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Do you think Val would have left for any other Championship club? We've lost our Head Coaches to West Brom, Leeds United and New York Red Bulls. We're hardly seeing them take tiny steps up the football ladder/pyramid.

    I honestly think it's different in League Two in terms of the options available and the risks clubs take. There's less 'big teams' looking to take a punt on a one season manager so they're often giving more time at their original clubs to back up any initial success, and out of those four or five big teams they've got supporters who demand a name. Meaning the young up and coming manager is left alone until he's got multiple seasons under his belt. Jones left Luton for Stoke during their ascent to the Championship and could have derailed their season, so I wouldn't hold him as a shining light to be honest.
     
  10. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But do you not think we should've had a new contract in front of Ismael last season, to either delay or increase the release clause? He might not have signed it, but at least we'd have tried. If Helik or Styles had a £2m clause in their contracts, there'd have been an outcry, and I think Ismael was more valuable to us than any player.

    To give another example, I imagine Blackpool will be in a stronger position when there's interest in their coach now, having given him a new contract.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It's all speculation though isn't it? We've got no idea what conversations went on, what Val was thinking, what the club were thinking, etc. We're second guessing the club on this one and being critical, but I'm not sure it's as simple as that.

    Players leave clubs all the time. Just because the selling club doesn't put a new contract in front of them doesn't mean they haven't asked the question. What is being speculated here is just as accurate based on what we know as me saying 'the club talked to Val about looking at a new deal but were told he wanted to speak to West Brom and had no interest in an extension at that time'.
     
  12. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But normally, the club are very quick to say when they've been discussing a new contract with anybody, nothing said about trying to tie Ismael down on a better contract.

    We can't just keep losing coaches after less than a year. It's just not sustainable. Which is why I think, if a coach isn't going to entertain a contract where a release clause isn't active so soon after joining, then they're not the right man for the job. If the clause was active after season 2, maybe.
     
    Redhelen and wolvestyke like this.
  13. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Not sure about that. I think at times we've been a very closed shop in discussing many things. New contracts for players have often come out of nowhere, like Woodrow and Styles, and we're far more secretive around transfer targets and coaches than in the past.

    I'm just pointing out that you suggesting the club didn't try to keep him is as valid as me saying we mentioned it, but he wasn't interested. We just don't know - and even if we didn't offer to try and keep him that's not to say we didn't sound out the possibility. But again, speculation.
     
  14. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We knew Mowatt had a contract offer. We know we've offered Palmer a contract. They keep their cards close to their chest, but generally when somebody leaves, having turned an offer down from us, they tend to let us know that they've tried to keep that person. Nothing forthcoming on that score with Ismael. And I think the root problem was Murphy's contract situation.

    You're right, I am speculating, but it's based on what I've seen coming out of the club, with previous departures and interviews with Murphy before it emerged that he was going. I can't see any other club resigning themselves to losing a coach after a good 30 odd games, and we do so because these clauses give us zero control over how long we can keep hold of anybody.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  15. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We never said anything about trying to keep Struber. Or Hecky. Or Lee Johnson. I wouldn't have expected us to say anything on Val.
     
  16. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Given the situation going on with the CEO, do you honestly believe we did a great deal to keep him, beyond hoping nobody would meet the release clause?
     
  17. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I doubt we did. But I also doubt Val had any interest in staying either.
     
  18. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Well that'd be another issue, and it's why I said I do not like the release clauses.

    People say the release clause is the reason why we managed to attract him in the first place. Well it turns out we'd have been better off doing, given he came in, did well for 39 games, left and took a bunch of staff with him that he'd inherited at Barnsley.

    I know the days of coaches / managers being around for years and years are gone, unless you're Guardiola or Klopp. But I'd at least like to see a coach that's keen to build something in a second season, rather than somebody that's already got their eyes on the exit door before they've even walked into the club. The fact we have a clause seemingly active throughout the contract means we'll always be looking over our shoulder whenever we have a coach that wins a few games. There'll never be any stability that way. if the clause kicked in after season 2, or within a certain window (between end of season and start of pre-season), then it might be different.
     
  19. Bri

    Brian Mahoneys Waist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    7,809
    Likes Received:
    6,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Why offer him another contract ,he'd already signed a 3 year deal with clauses.I agree with Loko WBA could blow us out of the water on wages for a start once there was interest there was only one way it was going to end.In hindsight the 2 million clause was quite good when you consider Villa only had to pay Rangers 3 million.
     
  20. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    20,817
    Likes Received:
    14,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stanley,Wakefield
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    This almost tops every thread posted by Hemsy.
     

Share This Page