If we had a labour government.

Well, he's an infinitely better answer than Johnson.

 

Much of our problems now are based on personality politics. It shouldn't matter if you think someone is likeable or palatable. It should be a case of can that person supported by their party have a better impact on the wider public than the alternative. And frankly, at this stage, before any sort of GE manifesto is published, the only thing to judge is general manner and outlook.

I've said before, I'm not a fan of Starmer and his comments about EU membership have left me cold. But if it were a straight decision on keeping dePfeffels rabble or giving Starmer a go, it will always be the latter.

 

Yes but it's not enough to just have the mindset 'well he's better than Johnson/Boris/Defieffel/liar so that's good enough for me.' Because it's really not hard. Many people in this country have more sound judgment and morals than Johnson.

Take your point on personality politics and the tories are awful, but I see posturing in the labour party too. I also don't understand why they're all wearing masks still on the front benches, other than to make a point. I think the labour party needs a serious shakeup if it's to dismantle 14 years of tory rule.

 

Not hard is it. Like comparing a grown adult with a naughty puppy.

 

When push comes to shove, that's all we have at a GE. Who is better of the options put forward. We don't have any wider say. At the next GE, whenever that may be, it will again widely be a choice of do you want more tory politics, or do you want rid of them.

In an ideal world, we'd have a system where your vote did count to a positive choice, but as this system favours the tories, even more with their gerrymandering, the people will have to work the system in the way that they can get closest to their ideal result.

And yes, I can see some posturing from Labour, but thats in direct relation to parts of the population liking the ridiculous notion of the flag and empire. if they didn't do it, they'd likely lose more votes.

As for masks, its their choice to do so. In this era of technology, I'm not quite sure why the commons is rammed at key times when it just doesn't need to be and has been proven so.

 

Seems like a lot of the electorate struggle to distinguish the difference.

 

I don’t think I’ll ever see a government that fits my leftie lunacy. Corbyn was that chance, and it failed. And that’s ok. Democracy and all that. But you can’t say it would or would not have worked, because it never had an opportunity.

Whereas, the right-wing Tories and centrist Labour have had plenty of opportunities and ‘this’ is the nation we have. Right here, right now. Take a look around. I think we can do much better. But here we are.

Not a fan of this current version of Labour, I don’t like Starmer, but I hope he and them defeat the Tories at the next GE. Because I’m not a horrible selfish knüt.

 

Much of our problems now are based on personality politics. It shouldn't matter if you think someone is likeable or palatable. It should be a case of can that person supported by their party have a better impact on the wider public than the alternative. And frankly, at this stage, before any sort of GE manifesto is published, the only thing to judge is general manner and outlook.

I've said before, I'm not a fan of Starmer and his comments about EU membership have left me cold. But if it were a straight decision on keeping dePfeffels rabble or giving Starmer a go, it will always be the latter.

I think that is a fair point Dan, I don't think it will matter if Bojo is in or not if the economy is doing well come the election - people will base their decision on the economy and how they are doing financially, if they are happy with their general situation, that is what usually decides elections, if the majority of the people are happy and the economy is doing well then Bojo or whoever is in charge at that time will win out - if not then Labour will win - for me it is as simple as that - Labour need to win over Tory voters on the economy or the economy needs to bomb for Labour to get in -

 

you can call them what you like. I see a centre right party probably aligned to one nation tories like Gaitskill and to the right of every post war Conservative Govts up to Thatcher.

The only policies they seem to be pushing currently are summary execution without trial. Offering a NMW increase that’s less than the tories. Naming and shaming drug users and supporting austerity 2.0 while trying to start a war with Russia.

if I wanted to vote for a right wing flag shagger I would vote for Johnson.

Blair should be in a cell for war crimes so let’s not pat him on the back for Sure Start Centres that are now closed. The damage he did at home was to feed into the belief that ‘politicians are all the same’ and ‘nothing can ever change’. The legacy of PFI is absolutely destroying NHS and school funding. And now thanks to him we have kids leaving uni 70k in debt.

Brexit had its roots in Blairism. Other than vague tokenism nothing was done to ‘level up’ the left behind communities of the north. Labour needs to take responsibility for that and give the communities that voted to leave a vision and hope for the future.

So I won’t be voting for an empty suit spiting vapid Blarisms because there is no point other than deposing a criminal and the tories will probably do that before the election anyway.

if you vote for the lesser evil you are still voting for evil.

 

I saw a tweet yesterday with pictures of both their childhood homes.
I can understand young socialists lionising Corbyn, he appeals to people who share his strong sense of social justice.
But to try to discredit Starmer as the elite whilst doing so, just shows a complete disregard for the facts. Corbyn is no more ‘one of us’ than Farage is.

But then, the naive working class belief that Labour are ‘their’ party is total nonsense too.

Anyone who ever worked down a pit, or in a factory knows damn well that the working class has more than its share of right wing idiots. And the middle classes have always held a fair proportion of liberal do-gooders who despite their personal wealth (whether earned or inherited) have a strong sense of social justice.

And those who demand ‘personality’ in their politicians? Give me a Milliband, Brown or Starmer over a Trump, Farage or Johnson every time. I’d like a thinker rather than an actor.

 

I will be voting Green for a better future. 30 years ago the SNP were a small voice in Scottish politics and look at them now.

 

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Labour are evil?

 

I'll wait to see manifestos before the next GE and take a view then. I've said before though, I'm in a constituency with a 30k labour majority so its a free vote. If I was in a tory seat, I'd vote for a dancing hamster if it had the best chance of unseating the incumbent.

 

Either would be better, just different degrees imo.

 

I ******* hate the tories, I'd like to see them all locked in a room until they had eaten each other with the last one eating themselves until there was no trace of anyone being there apart from 1 set of teeth. Labour are just so nothing and I dislike them for this. The next election will be like your kid being in a football final and instead of encouraging them to play to their strengths, enjoy the occasion and believe in their ability, you ask them to play less crap than the opposition.
Come on labour ffs it's there for the taking. Be strong, decisive, intelligent and forward thinking and get these furkers out or stop wasting our time.

 

I take your points but stand by my stance that we have a weak opposition.

As for a busy parliament, I'd rather we have those who represent us to be there in person rather than hiding behind a screen, and the same goes for the mask; I'd rather see their faces.

 

If we value and champion free choice, we shouldn't pick on them for choosing to wear a face covering if that's what they want to do. As for the chamber, how often do we see every MP's face? What about those that hide behind or to the side of the speakers chair?

By reducing the numbers in there who are only there to bray, intimidate and make a racket, it might actually assist in making it a less childish confrontational environment. It would also stop people being shouted over and shouted down and allow for better representation. Not to mention environmental benefits of reduced travel from the furthest flung corners of the country.

 

They seem to be advocating Summary execution of people. Possibly you should ask
Jean Charles de Menzies family how they would describe a political party advocating that.