Does The Devil exist?

The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince people he doesn't exist.

 

Sadly the UK government is going in the opposite direction. With trade deals with Australia and NZ and still holding out for one with US, it's very much trying to go down the route of cheaper meat, and from nations that have far worse standards using chemicals and feeds that were banned under EU law.

I very much agree though, improving how we farm and uncoupling it from more intensive practices should be a focus, as well as looking at rewilding parts of existing farm land (and rewarding that with grants and ground rents) rather than skimming off a corner or two for housing as farmers struggle to make ends meet.

 

Far be it from me to cast aspersions on meat-eaters, after all I used to be one. I also agree with you about those that take the moral high ground, it's exhausting and often self-aggrandising. I recently discovered that one such 'vegan preacher' in my own family isn't vegetarian at all and eats meat! I couldn't believe it. She likes a label, so she'd probably describe herself as 'flexitarian' Good luck to her, but it's a bit hypocritcial that she not only eats meat but preaches endlessly about climate change, as it is widely-known that meat-eating is bad for the planet, as acknowledged by Greenpeace, particularly industrial meat: 7 reasons why meat is bad for the environment | Greenpeace UK Some people will moan about the problem when in actuality they are part of it.

 

Lot of theology and scientific experts on this thread who are CERTAIN that nothing exists. You guys should be the ones wearing robes and having people praise you, you've got life all figured out, all the answers!! I am honored to be among such geniuses.

 

This is the difficulty. The raising of cattle and the provision of meat does contribute to methane in particular that is extremely harmful to the atmosphere, though it does evaporate far quicker than c02.

But what isn't considered is the devastation caused from non native plants that destroy biodiversity and can often use excessive levels of water leading to localised shortages.

Avocado and almonds perhaps the two most obvious for water usage, but then there are things like soy and palm (used for oil, fat and sugar) which have been grown to incredible quantities that have completely decimated local flora and fauna.

The sad reality is that if we look at just about everything mankind does, it scars, destroys, consumes ad erodes the planet we live on. That doesn't mean we can't try and reduce that impact... but the global population growing at the rate it is doesn't give us a huge chance of doing so in a meaningful way.

 

I used to be an athiest. Now I'm more agnostic. I used to think think material sciences could explain everything. But not convinced it can. I also think science has become too dogmatic, a bit like everything in life at the moment.

Plus, there are too many unexplained phenomena. Your imagination for one thing. How/where do you see a memory? You feel like it's in your head, but how can a bunch of atoms do that? Weird, considering they don't actually know how neurons and such can store memories. Taste, too. Strawberries taste great, but it's a very subjective experience. I suppose it's the hard problem of what consciousness is.

To be honest, I'd advise against people going down that rabbit hole.

 

How many gods do you believe in?

 

We all believe in things beyond our existence though, otherwise we wouldn’t be on this board.

Football. Two teams of 11 men kicking a ball around. It’s a game, nowt special. So why do we all get so worked up about it? Because it’s BFC - our heritage, our community, our identity. It’s who we are. All that only exists in our heads but we truly believe. BFC is our religion, our God. Oakwell our church where we worship. Some days, folk from other towns (who believe in their own God) come to our sacred ground/church. We then urge our God to be more powerful than their God and defeat them.

In reality it's just 22 men kicking a ball around. Can watch that anywhere.

 

Nonsense.
Barnsley FC definitely exist.
And they’re not my ‘religion’, they’re a pastime.
I think you might need a lie down fella.

my question to @tomaiba stands, I’d very much like to know how many gods he believes in.

 

I understand that, for you , those feelings etc constitute strong evidence for something. At the end of the day, however this is just anecdotal and for me, and many others, does not constitute real evidence of the supernatural.
People down the ages have been utterly convinced that they have experienced something that is real to them by strong feelings or sights and sounds that they feel to be something they can't explain, therefore .......whatever.
Our brains are so powerful that people will say things like "I know what I saw/felt/heard" etc but I remain utterly unconvinced by these anecdotal stories.

 

Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.
Throughout history every mystery ever solved has turned out to be
Not Magic.
Bertrand Russell's Teapot is a great analogy showing the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making empirically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.
Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion. He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot, too small to be seen by telescopes, orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.

Ask a religious person what would make them give up their faith "nothing"is the usual answer.
Ask a atheist what will make them belive in God "evidence" is the usual answer.
Most atheists aren't claiming they have it all figured out, I certainly wouldn't. However just because we don't have all the answers doesn't mean we should fill the gaps with whatever fairytales take our fancy.

 

And the reason @tomaiba wont answer my question
Because of the 3000 or so deities that man believes in, a Christian (for instance) has dismissed all bar one of them as a false religion.
So he definitely doesn’t believe in about 3000 gods and you and I don’t believe in a very similar number (just one more).
He knows when put like that, his stance looks a bit ridiculous
The sad thing is that whilst ever we allow the indoctrination of children we’re building a society that is unable to understand the difference between evidence and belief.

 

I do particularly enjoy that argument and I use myself the "which God" line is great fun to drop on people.
The indoctrination of Children is scary, I recently saw a YouTube video where a Journo went to a girls Islamic School (here in the UK) and the teenage girls had very little knowledge of science as they were being taught God did it all.

 

Wow who knew that was coming! So unique! Never had anyone say that to me before!!! Truly you are the atheist master

 

I mean - you knew it was coming so that's all a bit weird

But it does leave us with the question:

How can you be so absolutely certain that all those other Gods don't exist?

 

Great work at not answering the question though. Whichever particular flavour of God you do go for it's nearly always the same religion as ones parents. It's also usually possible to guess the religion based on someone's country of birth.
It always amuses me that people truly believe and must think how lucky I was born here and now so I could believe in the correct religion.
For the record I don't go around ridiculing people for their beliefs. However if those beliefs impact on the happiness and welfare of others then I do take issue with it. Moreover if the topic comes up then I'm afraid I will treat religion with the same contempt I would if someone said they believed Superman was real. In fact if some actually asserted that genuinely the conclusion of most would be they were either lying or mentally ill.

 

Believes in god but also believes in carrying guns... couldn't make it up.

 

Makes sense actually, look at the southern states in the US

 

My old man , bless him , drummed two things into my head & they were never discuss Politics or Religion , especially not whilst having a drink ! if ever his words of wisdom have rang true it is when I have read some of the views & thoughts of this thread .

 

The contradictions of the American right would be hilarious if they weren't so depressing and pathetic, like the "pro-lifers" who are violently opposed to "killing" a bundle of cells but are also strongly in favour of the death penalty. Bonkers.