Khaled: "The vision of the club is to have 23-year-olds and younger."

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by SuperTyke, May 29, 2022.

  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    That’s the point. You don’t have a plan yourself but expect Supertyke to supply you one with for any alternative.

    Conway signed a couple off grid but the basic plan has remained the same since Patrick implemented it. All we have done following the plan is spend the Stones money and more.

    I think the Plan is fine but we need to implement flexibly as we did when we signed Hammill and Sol. The focus on the football but with an eye on the bottom line.

    That’s all other people are suggesting not that we start bidding for Declan Rice.
     
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  2. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    But I do not need a plan because I am happy with the current plan. It certainly beats having no plan at all, which seemed to be what Supertyke was advocating.

    Hamill was fine, but Sollbauer could not get a game because his Chief Coach wanted a high line and Sollbauer was too slow to play that way. You are right though. There are no easy answers in football, and that is particularly true in the Championship, where the competition is intent on breaking the bank in an attempt to get into the Premier League. I just do not see how it is sustainable in the long term, and I just hope that we are still around when it all goes tits up.
     
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  3. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Your current plan lost 4 million last year. Spent all cash reserves and is likely to have lost an equal amount this year with an additional loss of revenue.

    Solbauer helped developed the younger lads and played a crucial role in the dressing room and his experience alongside Mowatt was desperately missed last season.

    As you say no easy answers and carrying on spending millions on players on the hope they develop isn’t sustainable. You have to get your recruitment spot on and get 1/2 certainties on board every window not 8/9 gambles. It’s hard and we have failed pretty consistently since the takeover.

    Like you I think the bubble will burst in the not too distant and won’t be sad if it does. Whether we can stay afloat that long we’ll in hope so.
     
  4. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Just on the plan thing. And just following up from listening to Neeravs session.

    One of the questions I did hear was regarding whether the club had a strategy for the next 3-5 years, and something I'd offered as a useful q to ask at the event. The reply was maybe surprising to some, but indicated there wasn't a plan. A strategy is to deliver an objective or a series of objectives.

    We've not broken even and most seasons we've not been especially successful either and what we have seen in the season just gone is a breakdown of basics in just about every area.

    We've had a loose ethos of signing cheap players in the hope of selling them at a significant profit. But we've not got close to delivering that ethos.

    Just saying something a few times isn't a plan.
     
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  5. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I have Balance Sheets and Profit and Loss Statements to a spreadsheet. Derby are not there because they are in Administration, and West Brom are not there yet because their year end was behind the rest. I have not published it because I did not believe the BBS would care. However, you would be amazed at some of the figures. They show in graphic detail just how hard it is to survive in the Championship without a constant supply of addition funds from the owners via loans.
     
  6. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I was getting at in an oblique way. We can’t carry on following Patrick’s plan as we stopped doing that when he left. Now we are just listless. What sort of business had no strategic objectives that mark success from failure.
     
  7. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    It’s an absolute nightmare and they are all close to fiscal meltdown. The only reason our finances aren’t even more screwed is not Patrick’s plan. It’s John Stones. But it would be good to go back to something resembling Patrick’s plan.
     
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  8. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    We could do with someone chucking some money at Everton for Holgate. I presume we've a sell on?
     
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  9. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    He was Playing well whenever I saw him last year do you never know.
     
  10. Arc

    Archerfield Well-Known Member

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    You make some really good points but, without the proceeds from the John Stones sell on fee, Patrick’s approach would not have been successful either. Ultimately he got the £10m windfall which the current ownership have spent.

    I personally don’t think there is a model that allows a club like Barnsley to compete in the Championship without a benefactor. This idea that we can identify talent assumes that the club have an edge against all other clubs. The last four years have been an abject failure and now the cash has run out.
     
  11. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I do agree with you. Currently, the Championship will eventually destroy every club that does not have a benefactor. However, for a club like Barnsley they are even more difficult to find than a decent striker. I am not even sure that I want to support a club where I am irrelevant. It breaks the link between the fan and the success that the club enjoys. Imagine turning up at the Town Hall to cheer a team that has been funded by a foreign entrepreneur who has nothing to do with the town except that has has chosen to show how much money he has by buying our club. It is not why I became involved with the club, and continue to support it after 57 years.
     
  12. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Do you think Liverpool and Man City fans consider they are getting entertainment?
     
  13. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Why do you ask?
     
  14. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Correct but sollbauer had helped the players develop already in the season and indeed the previous season. He was also still around training and ab older head to learn from there.
     
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  15. Dep

    Deputy Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Weren't we already about 7or 8 million in debt when we received the Stones money according to your figures you posted ?
    that was probably(but hopefully not) a once in a life time event.
    and he was home grown player .
    So it probably saved us, not gave us a war chest.

    I have said it many times over the years
    spreadsheets don't and cannot work on there own.
    the idea we have or invented or had some magic data system is laughable
    if your goal is to be for better word successful in a sporting sense.
    every article or study says you will come up against a wall and the only way over it is with .......money.
    the wall is probably where we are now and without it it will very very difficult to get back in the championship

    the days of us going down and going straight backup or even back up are more than likely over.
     
  16. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    we are funded by a foreign ‘benefactor’. Worse than that we are merely an investment opportunity for w wealth fund. They have zero empathy or link to the town. Even in the new ownership structure we are being kept afloat by a cash injection from the owner after a season of abject failure both on and off the pitch.

    Sign me up for someone spending sone money on us. Forest fans looked relatively happy with life yesterday and I suspect will enjoy their parade.
     
  17. Arc

    Archerfield Well-Known Member

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    The accounts pre takeover showed the club had a balance sheet value of £3.3m following a £12m player trading profit. Predominantly the sell on of £10m from the Barnsley Brazilian.

    At the point of the takeover the £6.3m of debt owed to Patrick was converted to the share premium account resulting in the balance sheet further improving to around £9.4m. Easiest way to reconcile those numbers is £3.3m + £6.3m minus the operating loss that year of £200k.

    As we stand today the likelihood is that the balance sheet is close to zero with the intangible asset value (player costs amortised) being offset by debt.
     
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  18. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    I guess because I'm exploring whether it really matters that the owners either have or don't have any connection with the town. For instance, would you feel differently if the wealthy prospective owner was a Matthew Benham type who did have prior connection? Is it much different? My understanding from a quite senior level is that the club were unaware of Patrick Cryne before his takeover. My gripe with our owners has not been their wealth or their lack of connection - it has been that their policies appear to have been actively (even if unintentionally) working against the interests of the club. Who knows whether the new Board will run things differently? But there looks to be no promise of any significant investment, and player sales have not been ruled out. So we will have to wait and see.
     
  19. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    Just on the john stones money was it not 7.5 million rather than the 10million been quoted in some posts? I thought 15% of 50million?
    And also using the plan we have generated some money admittedly had our pants pulled down with some fees mawson(5.5million) conor(3million) winnall(800k) pinnock(2.5million) lindsay(2million) kieffer(2.5million) the problem is when we have sold especially recently the replacements have been inadequate and the current ownership have spunked so much money its scary.
     
  20. Arc

    Archerfield Well-Known Member

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    You could be right on the combination of Stones and Mawson. The accounts to 2016 show a post balance sheet profit of £10m. By the time the full accounts for 2017 are submitted player trading profit for the year is £12.5m. The £12.5m is net of £2.2m of transfer fees paid and a million of player amortisation.

    What is interesting is the list of players you show where the club has turned a reasonable return. Not many have been signed under current regime.
     

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