O/T Joshua v Usyk...

The 'stay humble' veil slipped again.

 

Completely disagree on P4P. So you can have him ranked as number one P4P for beating Breidis, Gassiev etc & dominating cruiserweight then he goes up in weight & gets his best 2 victories & wins 3 of the 4 heavyweight titles & you would demote him as you don’t rank him above Fury at heavy? That doesn’t make any sense to me.

If Inoue remains undefeated & moves up in weight will you automatically move him down the list if you don’t personally rank him as number one in that division?

 

Let’s have it right. His mental health issues only came because he wasn’t able to fight due to his doping.

Barely anyone seems to know about the nandrolone doping. You mention he was banned for taking drugs & they just go ‘yeah, Coke weren’t it?’.

It’s weird how he’s got away with everything.

Your bang on. Imagine an England footballer serving a doping ban, calling a mass murdering drug dealer a personal friend, making the comments he has about Jews & homosexuals, lying about giving several million to charity, having a dad that gouged a man’s eye out. They’d be slaughtered in the press.

 

Barely anyone seems to know? He openly acknowledges the nandrolone charges in his autobiography:

'From February 2015 to December 2017 a cloud of suspicion hung over me relating to an accusation that a high level of nandrolone had been found in my system and that of my cousin, Hughie Fury.

I had to resolve this before I could truly believe I could fight again.

I had been tested regularly by the drugs people at UKAD, probably more than most boxers, and when the case with them finally came to a conclusion they were able to list a series of tests that came back negative.

The issue of the raised level of nandrolone came in a test in February 2015, but I wasn’t made aware of possible charges against me until long after that.

The body naturally produces nandrolone but mine had a high level for some reason. I can categorically state, however, that I have never taken any performance-enhancing drugs and never will.

The big question that did remain after the case was resolved was why it had taken UKAD so long to sort it out. Why did they leave me in limbo, allowing people to call me a drugs cheat, allowing me to be humiliated like that?

I couldn’t help feeling at the time that other forces were at work in the background.

Boxing is a shady business and when I reflect on that period, I can’t help but feel that if some people felt that they couldn’t beat me in the ring, they had to get me out of boxing another way.'

Edit: he openly acknowledges that he was at fault for his own shortcomings (coke, alcohol etc) and states that he suffered from depression from a very young age. Tyson isn't for everyone, but let's get it right.

 

I wasn’t referring to Fury himself. It rarely gets a mention in the media.

Cyclist or track runners test positive & it’s always mentioned.

Loads mention Canelo’s positive tests as well.

I’ve not read Fury’s autobiography to be fair but I wouldn’t want to either. He never stops telling lies.

 

I think it’s unlikely and it’s difficult to answer a hypothetical question. But yes if I rate someone more than him then he’d be higher in my rankings. I don’t see who that would be mind.

At the risk of going round in circles I think fury wins every minute of every round against Usyk. They fight at the same weight so I have to rank Fury higher. I can’t make a current list based on what someone was doing 5 years ago, as impressive as it was.

 

I just don’t get the logic. Surely it’s all on resume rather than hypothetical match ups in your head? For example if Canelo bet Bivol instead of it boosting him even further it seems like you’d go the other way & drop him down the rankings as Beterbiev’s the number one in that weight class?

 

It’s actually amazing how well Fury played the mental health game and turned his drug use (peds & recreational) into a perfectly crafted story that fooled thousands & thousands. It’s not something you can physically disprove, so who’s gonna know any better?

Does he have mental health issues? Almost certainly. He he played them to his advantage? Almost certainly.

 

What I do hope is that given Usyk is likely fairly easy to negotiate with (well his team) and that he just wants the fight, is that if it doesn't happen it will be obvious it's Fury not wanting it. Hopefully that will make him more willing to get it sorted

 

Shame aj didnt win fury said he would have done that fight for free for the fans live on terrestrial television... LOL

 

I guess my reaction was on the 'barely anyone seems to know' comment. His book has sold a lot of copies and he openly confronts the issue. It's up to individuals of course whether they choose to believe him or not. In your case you probably don't. I do. But i take your point on lies; he does chop and change a lot and come out with some rubbish.

 

That's fair enough mate.

 

Reminded me of myself.

 

'Playing' mental health issues doesn't sit right with me. He was moments from crashing his car and ending it all. He has helped many, many people who have also not seen a way out to come back - if this is what you meant by 'playing to his advantage' as a human being helping others, then I get it. If you mean he's done it with some other motive in mind, then i disagree. Tyson wasn't messing about in those wilderness years. It's disingenuous for others to say it was all down to the drugs charge that he got depressed due to not being able to fight. He hated boxing for a few years, due to his very real depression.

 

I think he has mental health issues and he has done well to overcome them and raising awareness is a definite positive, all that is true he has done a lot of good.
I also belive he is a liar and drug cheat. That he has ties to organised crime and has used the mental health issues as a positive story to cover up all of that and build a positive image. It's one of the greatest PR jobs I've seen in sport.
He's a walking contradiction, and I concede he can be very entertaining to listen to and definitely a brilliant boxer.

 

So now Fury wants to relieve the Ukraine dosser of his belts the week before Christmas. It all sounds too good to be true to get a undisputed champion this year.

 

That is all assumption and conjecture. If it is a PR stunt then it's a very poor one in my opinion, because Tyson has hardly covered himself in glory. His is a worts-and-all tale that completely divides opinion. Many people don't like him and, at times, it's clear he doesn't like himself. He hasn't built a positive image, he's built a complicated image and it's a true reflection of the complicated man. If a PR team was behind him he wouldn't be anywhere near social media.

One of the greatest PR jobs i've seen in sport is Anthony Joshua, something that threatens to ruin him. Here is a man who has been pumped up more than his bulging muscles, he's been polished and preened every step of the way. On Saturday night we saw his lack of class. It was a human reaction in real time and it showed his character - he called it passion; it was undignified, childish, and showed how far removed he is from the model athlete, Mr Corporate Guy that he usually portrays; in reality the PR stool was kicked from under him, he took the mic, and completely overshadowed Usyk's win and made it all about himself. He did have the decency to apologise afterwards, but I think he needs to step away from the limelight for a bit and ditch the PR men. It may have boosted his bank balance no end - something that he is all about, money. But it has cost him his identity and sense of self. At least Tyson knows he is a mess, and he doesn't care what people think: Tyson is the opposite of good PR.

 

Agree on the AJ PR job too.
I didn't mean to suggest Fury had the same sort of PR as AJ. Of course Fury continues to make himself look foolish.
I was merely pointing out that the mental health story and coverage, including a documentary was used to deflect from his drug cheating and homophobic comments.
My reference to him being a liar was the clear and obvious lie that he was giving away his purse from the first Wilder fight.