Census 2021...God is on borrowed time

Never once claimed it was anything other than my opinion. Thought that was pretty obvious...

The amount of times religion has been used in this and other countries to deny rights to people and to subjugate, I'll carry on with my derision. It pales in comparison to things religious people have been saying to non-believers for centuries.

 

Not sure, but I predict "god given ability" will appear in a future message.

 

The first sentence is not accurate.

Religion is cause for none of that.

Bigotry, intolerance and miseducation are, with religion used as a smokescreen

 

You and Barnsley Reds seem to think science and intelligence do not accord with Christianity. That’s a fallacy. In the past 120 years 105 Nobel science laureates (39 this century) have been Christian. That’s just scientists, hundreds of artists, writers, clinicians and ‘peace mongers’ have been ‘God botherers’. I have personally known two ordained ministers who were a nuclear scientist and an Astro physicist.
And Telboyred’s accusation of LGBT discrimination and misogyny is based on ignorance. Most churches in UK, mine included, with the exception of RCs, will officiate same sex marriages. Similarly there are an inordinate number of ordained women and gay men and women. You should acknowledge that anecdotes (of fundamentalism) do not prove a generality.

 

My question is how can you pick and choose which bits to ignore? Surely bits of the bible being wrong undermines its credibility as a whole doesn't it?

 

Only to fundamentalists do the anomalies threaten their perceived credibility. Most anomalies are between the old and new testaments. Common sense prevails. The OT advocates stoning adulterous women, but Jesus said to the adulterous woman “go away and sin no more”. The OT was written over 5000 years by different men. The Bible we have today was put together by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD by a collection of Bishops who had differing ideas on which books should be included. There were gnostics like Marcion who believed that if we were to follow the teachings of Christ the Bible should have no OT but just the Gospels and Acts. It’s left to the individual to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

You're so close to being a atheist. You presumably deny every other religion is true and you acknowledge the bible is a man made work of fiction essentially. Do you believe Genesis is accurate? Did God Flood the Earth?

 

Lot to unpack in that so let's give it a go.
Science and intelligence do not in your word "accord" with any religion. Hence my comment amount how amazed I am that any otherwise intelligent person does belive.
I once saw a geologist who said he believed the Earth was only 6000 years old just like the bible said despite his work telling him otherwise. His rationale was God just made it appear the Earth was older.
It great to hear more stories of the Church allowing same sex marriage and not discriminating agaisnt Women. It 100% goes against the teachings of the Bible though. It also goes agaisnt the stance the church took on the matter for centuries.
Now the here's the thing I don't blame Christianity for all the ills of the world and I acknowledge the postove community work Church's do. What i do think is that the people doing good would still be good without Christianity. As these good people make the conscious decision (like yourself) to ignore the bits of the bible that are, let's face it awful.
Moreover putting aside the debate of Christianitys influence good or bad on society, I also believe its painfully obvious that its made up nonsense. Belief in a omnipresent master of the universe is so absurd to me that it's almost impossible not to ridicule it. A adult telling me they believe in God is no different than if a adult told me they genuinely believed in leprechauns, the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy.

 

Don't believe in something, fine. But don't deride others for their religious beliefs.

Before commenting, maybe just pause and ask yourself if you'd be saying the same thing if you were speaking to a Muslim, the topic was Islam, and if what you'd be saying would be considered Islamophobic. Hold yourself to the same standard.

 

No I'm not atheist, though I've read much of Richard Dawkins work, I was agnostic for 20 years. I do not deny other religions, but I am very critical of fundamentalism in all religions including Christianity. As I've said previously, of course the Bible is man made and some books, like Job are accepted as fiction. A story to illustrate a mans struggles and stoicism. Others like Psalms and Song of Songs are prayers and Love poems. Do I believe Genesis to be accurate ? No. If you trace the genealogy of the Old Testament the Earth is 10,000 years old, which is clearly wrong. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and was a result of the 'Big Bang'. What Genesis does describe in very flowery language is evolution, it's just got the timeline of 7 days wrong. Bearing in mind when it was written 7,000 years ago and with the limited knowledge of astrophysics it wasn't a bad guess. Floods ? Happen all the time. The end of the ice age 10,000 years ago caused a rise in sea levels and flooding. Noah and the Ark is an apocryphal story of a flood that extended as far as he thought the world existed, 40 or 50 miles. The issue of the Bible and faith is a concept which as a former agnostic I know is difficult to grasp. Faith is solely NOT dependent on the Bible, well not the OT. It's major foundations lie in the Gospels and Acts ie. the teachings of Christ. I could go on but I'm mindful this debate is declining into sophistry.

 

I believe there's something. I'd say I'm agnostic. When you get that little voice or conscience telling you something or intuition I believe there is something outer worldly about it.

Sod's law. You look at a racehorse that has no form yet something is still drawing you to it. You back something else that is more of an informed choice as it has better form. Yet the other horse you ignored romps in.

There has to be something in that for me.

Gut feelings too, getting a bad feeling about a certain place, route or person etc. Then hearing of something bad happening after the event of giving that scenario a wide berth and feeling vindicated.

Likewise being drawn into something you regret later in spite of your intuition telling you to steer well clear. I'm rambling now. Carry on.

 

I think you're conflating a criticism of the religion of Islam with a racist attack on muslims.
The world would be a far better place if Islam, Judaism and Christianity had never seen the light of day.

 

Your geologist friend is a fundamentalist and he's wrong. Same sex marriage and misogyny only goes against the Old Testament. Jesus was supportive of women and was silent on homosexuality. I totally agree you don't need to be a Christian to do good things. There are many so called Christians who do bad things, Donald Trump and his acolytes spring to mind. I do not ignore bits of the Old Testament, I point out to fundamentalists, and those like you, where they are wrong and where they are awful. The established church has used the Bible to control the masses, that's why services for centuries were in Latin. It was clearly wrong, but the Church misusing Christianity for their own ends does not devalue the fundamental teachings of Christ. Hence we are called Christians because we follow the teachings of Christ. What is wrong with a policy of love, caring for the poor and vulnerable and service. I personally don't want to convert the world to my way of thinking but I would like to live my life in my faith without ridicule. History tells us that ridicule is often followed by persecution.

 

Could we have evolved a sense of morality without religion?

 

You don't believe in the miraculous nonsense in the bible, don't agree with the fundamentalists who do and who extrapolate it to cause misery. You do believe in the broad teachings ascribed to a Jesus for which, the bible apart, there is very tenuous evidence.
That's fine. As has been said though there's no need to be Christian, Moslem or anything else to do good things. My problem is that any form of religion gives cover to those who take it to the extremes. There are many, many good people who don't.
Granted though if I could wave my magic wand there would still be a heck of a lot of problems in the world and those who use religion as an excuse would find some other way of spreading misery.
I dont get how anyone can be a Christian and not believe in the son of god, virgin birth, resurrection etc. That doesn't make someone a Christian, just someone who agrees with the teachings attributed to Jesus.
By the way, this isn't meant as a personal attack. I genuinely just think that religion has been and will always be used as a way to control and suppress.

 

Yes, of course.

 

This question infers that you believe all atheists to be amoral?

 

I reckon we’d have got there a hell of a lot faster…

 

Er, no. It doesn't. It's possible that as a species we had a sense of morality before we had a sense of religion. I was just musing aloud about where it comes from.