Highway code Rule H2

I visited Boston Mass. a few years ago. I was amazed at how courteous the drivers were regarding pedestrians. I was told that the reason is that every collision between car and pedestrian is automatically deemed to be the driver’s fault. In court, the driver has to prove otherwise.

 

On the subject of lights and the Alhambra roundabout...what purpose do the ones on the slip road from the car parks have ..I' still don't know why the traffic lights are there its not as if you have the right of way on to the roundabout. For me they serve no purpose at all...

 

The rule change at junctions in favour of the pedestrian right of way is, in my opinion, down to the introduction of electric vehicles on our roads... you can't hear them they are that quiet
so the emphasis of responsibility lays firmly with the driver to be more observant and to drive with more caution than they already do ....that said driving standards are getting remarkably worse in my opinion especially on the motorways.

 

No place for cyclists then? Yes I know there are dedicated cycle routes, some simply lanes on roads where there is usually no physical barrier (like a kerb) or on old railway lines etc (which are always shared with pedestrians). But in many many cases there is no alternative to the road, which is the right and proper place for cyclists.

 

Nowhere in my post did I say that I was taught to give way to pedestrians not on the road. I did not misunderstand my instructor.
What every vehicle driver should understand is that in the hierarchy of road users, THEY have the most responsibility and should have the lowest priority with respect to other road users, ie be prepared to give way to ALL road users.
Oh and by the way the pavement in British law is in fact part of the highway.

 

Guide Dogs for the Blind have specifically told their clients to ignore the new rule and continue as normal. It causes a problem though as cars stop to allow them to cross but the dog is (rightly) refusing as it can see and hear a car with the engine running.

 

I hate that as I turn onto the street of my work every morning. There’s often someone walking along that street and I have to try and time their footsteps to me coming along incase they want to cross but they almost always turn and carry on around. It’s bad enough trying to predict people approaching a zebra crossing. I’m also cautious when driving anyway but I do wonder what the people behind me think every morning.

 

In Michigan the pedestrians have right of way, it`s dangerous, people just step out without looking, assuming any vehicle will stop.

 

You are being deliberately argumentative. You said " When I learned to drive (1979) I was taught that when turning from one road into another you must give way to ALL road users in that road, including pedestrians. " If they are "road users" then they are not on the pavement.

EDIT: yes I omitted cyclists but the rules are as more vulnerable road usersand they should be given a wide berth, drivers should reduce speed and treat them as they should livestock like horses.

As regards your argument that" in British law the pavement is part of the highway"...You don't half talk some ****** to try and justify your argument. In fact, he footway is a modern legal term which refers to the part of the highway set aside for pedestrians more commonly know as the pavement. So pavement and road asconsidered as two distinct components which make up the highway. To reinforce that -It is illegal for vehicles to drive along the pavement . If you don't believe me try driving along it i.e. 'highway' in your car and see how far you get before you get pulled over.

Funnily enough 1979 is when I was actually working as a a qualified driving instructor in Barnsley so knew most of the instructors there so am curious to know who taught you.

 

And you're not?
I learned to drive in Cambridge mate, started with BSM then had an independent. It would have been funnier if I said it was you
You accuse me of talking twaddle then quote the very thing that supports what I said!
"Footway is a modern legal term which refers to the part of the highway set aside for pedestrians. The footway is more commonly referred to as the pavement, however it should be noted that footways do not all have the same surface."

I get that your background gives you more knowledge on this subject than your average bloke but you have to concede that I do know a bit about all this as well. Particularly from a cycling standpoint.

All of this thread is very interesting, but the HC has been amended in several ways most of which are an attempt to reduced the perceived pre-eminence of drivers vs the rest of the more vulnerable road users and make the roads safer. Accept it, conform to it and move on. They don't just make it up on the fly, they study traffic with attention paid to changing circumstances, there are many "new" rules which have been introduced over the years which are now fully accepted and indeed most people would be hard pressed to imagine life without them.

 

Which is very sensible really.

 

Yes, this was a failed attempt to increase throughput on basically the same size carriageway by removing the hard shoulder. One of the first ones near me was the M42 to the East of Birmingham and it transformed the road from an occasional car park to something like a reasonably flowing road. But as you say safety problems with these roads have become apparent. The real solution to motorway congestion was never this but a real commitment to cheap public transport, something this government will never do and sadly, Blair's Labour didn't do either.
As for rule H2, given time maybe it will become second nature, any change requires road users to understand and modify their behaviour. What is missing is a public information campaign in my opinion.

 

That is exactly the scenario I pointed out in post #34 and one of several reasons why I believe this rule is badly written.
As a former instructor I do not have the same faith in the 'experts' who sit in meetings and gather stats to come up with some of these rules. They literally need to get out more i.e. and spend time on the road with instructors. There are many differences between the highway code and Roadcraft ( the police driver's manual. Some of the advice given in the latter e.g. positioning of vehicle before turning left is IMO far better than the Highway code. Using data and statistics a and coming up with rules sitting in meetings is not the same as the real world.

 

Read it again. The highway is not the same as the pavement. The highway comprises two separate elements not to be confused with each other. The road and the footway (pavement)
So sorry ..yes you were speaking twaddle .
Incidentally my initial training was with BSM ( the path many wannabe instructors took ) but the franchise system was not well paid so most ,like me went independent asap. The nickname amongst other instructors for BSM was Bring Some Money as instructors were expected to persuade pupils to have more lessons per week than was really neccessary for them to progress.
.

 

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it as I have read through but one big issue with stopping on the road is the amount of time you have someone driving 6 inches from you back bumper.
Driving around at the speed limit just seems to be a signal to many to drive as closely as possible to you.
Now I often respond by slowing down in the hope they will get the message and back off. However I think drivers have enough to worry shout without trying to assess if someone is crossing a road or not. Then when you do stop they don't want to cross as they don't feel safe.

 

Tailgating is an 'art form' over here. Even at speeds of 80-120 kmh I have had cars so close I cannot even see their number plate . One tactic ( only really in low speed urban areas,) you can try is use your left foot to apply sufficient pressure to bring the brake lights on without actually slowing the car and maintaining the same speed or even gently accelerating if say going from a 30-40 mph zone. It confuses the hell out of them. Some get the message and back off but most don't.
The only plus point with tailgaters if you do have to stop suddenly, the speed differential at the point of impact when they run into the back of you is comparatively low so less damage occurs and probably no neck injuries either. The '2 second rule' is, nevertheless, the one to follow and most often ignored.

 

Years back i had a friend who wired a switch to his break lights in a Fiesta so he could flick the break lights on without actually touching the break. They soon backed off.
I really don't suffer from road rage and when people do silly things I'm happy to let them go and carry on my own journey safely. However I would be lying with the tailgating if I didn't admit I have been seriously tempted to slow to a stop with he hazards on and get out and confront the idiots. Luckily upto now common sense has prevailed and I have slowed down and some overtake, which is fine by me.

 

Then that's a flaw in the driver not the rules

 

Most of the BSM trainers were not fully qualified.
They were teaching on a trainee licence.
I trained with BSM never went on a trainee licence as I was fortunate to pass my part 3 first time, so I left BSM and went Independant.