Socialism

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by e-red, May 12, 2023.

  1. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    I never wanted the recent thread about Dolly Parton to be political. Some of my responses have made me think.
    I have learned over time that to post on this board you have to have a thick skin, because people on here will pull you down.
    I developed a strategy for handling this. I read the aggressive response, I write an equally aggressive response and I don’t send it. The person looking for an argument goes away.
    There are many views of what being a socialist is and the rules seem to be:
    a) you can’t be a millionaire and a socialist.
    b) you can’t live in a nice house and be a socialist.
    c) you can’t drink champagne and be a socialist.
    d) you can’t be rich and have a social conscience and be a socialist.
    This is because all of those things are strictly reserved for tories and if you want those things you have to be a Tory. If you are a proper socialist you have to live in the lowest level of housing, not have two halfpennies to rub together and drink brown ale.
    No wonder Labour are not making up ground as quickly as they should be on this criminally appalling government.
    Bottom line is you can be a socialist and succeed in life and honour your beliefs.
    I’m getting ready to write a really aggressive response and not send it.
     
  2. Oakwell Calling

    Oakwell Calling Well-Known Member

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    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint.

    When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.
     
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  3. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you should keep out of politics altogether if the above is all you can take about Socialism. Socialism in this country is a broad church, but is nowhere as ‘left-wing’ as many of our European counterparts. It does not hold people back and Unlike Capitalism, no one should be left behind and live in destitute, squalor and hunger. Wanting a fairer society should be a basic trait in everyone, instead of being manipulated and used as a tool by the ‘haves’ to beat people with. The Nigel Farages, Rees- Mogg etc, are exactly what’s wrong with this country, pretending to be the friend of the ‘ordinary person’ whilst undermining them and further propping up the elite. The divide and conquer tactic is still well and truly alive in this country. I could go on and on here. I hope you don’t find this reply aggressive as it’s not meant to be.
     
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  4. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Aggressive response not sent
     
  5. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Bit touchy aren’t we
     
  6. I'm Spartacus

    I'm Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    a) Not a millionaire, but financially secure.

    b) Live in a nice house.

    c) Don't like champagne.

    d) Makes no sense whatsoever.

    S'pose that makes me middle class, but call me that and there will be a really aggressive but unsent response in the offing....
     
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  7. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone on here has ever said you can't be comfortable and be a socialist. In fact from my experience those are generally arguments made by those on the right to cut down people who are advancing socialist arguments.
     
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  8. Mr C

    Mr C Well-Known Member

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    I’m more interested in Dolly’s music than her politics. Though I did correct one lad who called her ‘Bible Belt’. That’s well wide of the mark.
    What do I know? Validity of opinions is increasingly status based & I barely have a pot to pee in.. :)
     
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  9. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Like a lot of Barnsley fans I grew up in Wombwell when a donkey with a red rosette would have got in. Tony Benn (a Lord) was the hero of the miners demonstration.
    I’ve had a lot of time to think about it and I was the idiot on the bus wearing a red rosette and preaching to the converted.
    The early socialist message was aspirational, “life can be better than this if we unite and organise”. It was about opportunity and formation of cooperative societies and brass bands and arts groups and the chance to go to university and not live in penury because of it.
    This message has been adapted to work against the labour movement to one of higher taxes to pay dole scroungers. While this goes on the message that Toryism doesn’t deliver lower taxes and that money goes to their supporters instead of public services is less out there.
    The aspiration message of socialism has somehow been lost on the way. This has been done by some very clever Tory spin doctors and a controlled media.
    Basic human nature when asked to vote has a very healthy “What’s in it for me” element and we need a positive message rather than “at least we’re better than them”.
    I will take your advice though and stay out of politics, because clearly I know nowt about it.
     
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  10. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Irony is clearly lost on you.
     
  11. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    I think we ought to have a separate thread where the aggressive responses are sent. It would be entertaining! :D
     
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  12. Baz

    Bazza Well-Known Member

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    You can't vote for Brexit and be a Socialist.
     
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  13. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

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    Is this thread about coming from our area and then doing well and no longer being a socialist and then moaning about it?
     
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  14. MonkeyRed

    MonkeyRed Well-Known Member

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    Non aggressive response here.

    I don't hear the 4 listed points trotted out by many genuine lefties. To me, they originate from the right-wing, the press in particular, to slash at the idea of socialism and barstewardise it into something it isn't, which is an effective tool to persuade working class people to distrust the word/concept.

    To me, it's fine to poke fun at the hypocrisy of multimillionaires being philanthropic without meaning they aren't deserving of their wealth or good people. It's often more of a tongue in cheek comment on the ridiculousness of the system. The actual folk who are for stringing up anyone who's ever paid over £5 for a pint are as rare as raving flat-earthers.

    Anyways, we don't live in a democracy if we keep quiet about politics, whatever the reason. Reasoned debate is healthy and part of the key is to respond to aggressive views with said reason and decency.

    All in my opinion, of course ;):D
     
  15. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    While I would never describe myself as wealthy, I went to Uni and had a few rewarding well-paid jobs so they I am now in a position of comfort in my retirement. I am still a socialist and will no doubt be voting Labour in the next GE (assuming there is nobody else standing here with a good chance of beating the Tory candidate). I'm not sure how I fit into the OP's scheme :(
     
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  16. Lor

    Lordtyke Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much agree with what you're saying, as someone who comes from a very poor and deprived background, brought up as someone who cares about the welfare of others, totally agree with helping those who have nowt and have been a labour voter all my life, it saddens me to see people on here vilified for having a slightly different perspective.
    To me it's ok to have more money than some, having worked blooming hard for it, and to still have the core social justice views
    It's ok to be a millionaire and have a socialist viewpoint
    It's ok to be a socialist and still desire a strong military which will protect our country and respond to threats like Putin
    It's ok to be a socialist and start a business which blossoms into a means of employment for others. Profit isn't a dirty word, money to pay for all we desire as socialists has to be generated from somewhere.
    It's ok to welcome genuine refugees, shelter, feed, and protect them from the ravages of war, but to draw the line at (this is merely an example and not meant to be a blanket generalisation of all migrants) healthy mid 20's single men from Albania who have no war, no famine, no discrimination to contend with in Albania, and can readily afford the thousands of pounds they pay to traffickers to get to these shores. The Tory gutter press love the stories of so called left wing lawyers going to court to stop deportations, and this will ramp up the closer to the GE that we get. Middle England will once again fall for the "immigrant" threat, and the Tories will get back in.

    It's a different world today and as socialists we are subject to overwhelming Tory media propaganda which the Tory supporters lap up, we are portrayed as the enemy within, left wing loonies, stop oil idiots etc, and we have little response to that because we have no real media supporting presence. Starmer, whatever your thoughts on him, has an almost impossible job on his hands.

    I am not hiding behind the sofa, nor do I need a tin hat. This is a forum and we should all be entitled to our viewpoint, as our age, experience and environments growing up are what shapes our philisophy.

    I think that many people on here have become afraid to give their opinion on certain issues due to the OTT responses from certain posters. It's bullying...simple as that.

    Luckily for me I am a Red (Barnsley) and a Red (Voter) but I wouldn't dream of condemning someone just because they have a different opinion to me

    You Red(s)!
     
  17. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    No just taking you at face value as I don’t know you. BTW wereyou aware Tony Benn renounced all that privileged stuff, and was truly a friend of the Working Classes and not some Farage type hypocrite
     
  18. e-red

    e-red Well-Known Member

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    Yes and I want make it clear that I vote labour, never, ever voted Tory and I am a passionate reds fan. With all of those pre-conceptual conditions, it does you good to step back and seek a bit of clarity on what’s really happening in today’s world. With so many media outlets, most of the big ones in Tory control, even the BBC which we all pay for, politics has never been more about positioning than policy.
    I will vote labour until I die, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be critical of the message they are sending out.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
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  19. Til

    Tilertoes Well-Known Member

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    Piss off
     
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  20. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    These are all things that right wing commentators come out with - anyone who has any money and shows concern for society, inequality and the welfare of others is immediately called a hypocrite or that old favorite a "champagne socialist", its the logic of an idiot.
     
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